Aberrant RPG - A Breed Apart

[metaphysician]

Haven't done much more than skim so far, but it looks like good stuff for the limited focus area. 2nd Generation novas definitely are buff. . . *if* they aren't taint-ridden Trogs.

[Blue Thunder]

I still have to read it completely myself. I've only skimmed it over as well. Can't say I agree with nova children erupting at birth, though, and that seems to be what the e-book has going on...

[Alex Green]

Link to it: A Breed Apart

The 2nd gen we were kind of stuck with. I think it's unbalancing but it's also cannon... and goes a long way to explain why the so called good guys are also into sterility projects.

[Blue Thunder]

But none of the printed material ever mentions novas giving birth to erupted children. Unless I missed something.

According to the Teragen book, the Nursery is full of nova children, but only a few have erupted so far (as of 2008 anyway).

[Alex Green]

Exactly. They are nova children, not unerupted baselines who are the children of novas. Translation: Their nodes are working. Maybe not well, but they are on.

So they are born with nodes, and yes, erupt later. As for that kid with the spots who is killed (the Ingersols), he'd follow the same rules. He didn't "erupt" at birth, but his parents don't really have a way to tell the difference.

[Sprocket]

Re: 2ndGen novas born erupted

We on the Development Team had discussed this a bit, until we heard that Ian Watson was going to have some material on 2ndGen novas in his Trinity Storytellers Guide. He gave us permission to use it as a guideline, in our mutual interest of keeping the EON fanbooks more-or-less compatible with his CtC fanbooks. Aside from jettisoning the broadly anti-nova tone, we pretty much followed his lead AFA 2ndGen power development. ::cool

Check out his WIKI version of the TSG here - http://rpgbooks.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page - & look at the chapter for "Aberrant Society" for comparison.

[Timeslip]

For those interested in fan-produced material for Aberrant, I am happy to announce the completion of A Breed Apart: a book about nova reproduction (and the struggle to support/prevent said) and the mechanics of second-generation novas.

You can grab it from me here.

And for those crazed souls (like myself) who want to bind it as a nice softcover book, you can find a wraparound cover for the thing here.

- Jessica Orsini (layout, typesetting, cover design, art wrangler, and provider of some small amount of writing and editing)

[HyperFocus]

Im already devouring it. Im trying to outline a "Sterlization Conspiracy Revealed" type chapter for the World Wide Phase 3 proposed on Eonline. Should be a big help. Thanks to everyone invovled.

[Timeslip]

Glad you're liking it, HyperFocus.

[Lou Anne Burgess]

I haven't had as much time as I'd have liked to for reading it this weekend, but I've liked what I read. Kudos to you & the rest of the team.

[Alessa Neri]

Loved the book, every idea as very fitting to the person and corporation involved, the only thing I seem to find missing is an example of a pre-apotheosis and post-apotheosis 2nd Gen.

It would help if any DM who wanted to see the difference in them.

Otherwise, its a great bood =D

[Ammonites]

I have very much enjoyed this E-Book so far. Kudos to those involved! ::biggrin

[SkyLion]

Welcome Shambie! Those are some right cute turtles you have there...

,,,,

::welcome ::welcome ::welcome

[Blue Thunder]

Best. Avatar. Ever.

I love the pictures in ABA by Cottus. I always wondered what the offspring of a demon and an alien grey would look like. The answer? Stitch.

And now I have stats for Bounty, so I don't have to give her stats for our NoLK campaign.

[Sprocket]

Re: Trog family portrait

The thing I liked about the Trog kid (aka "Stitch") is that while he may be kind of cute in a weird way as a toddler, just imagine what he'll look like as an adult, esp. after racking up more Taint on his own... ::devil

[Ammonites]

Ok, so I'm reading in the book about the Fertility Enhancement, and was curious.

At one lvl your reproductive span is increased to where you can have children through 90% of your lifespan.

At two lvls you no longer have to go through menopause.

Therefore, if you only have one lvl, you sill go through menopause in the last 5% of your life. ::confused

Am I interpreting this correctly?

[Alex Green]

I think it ignores the "child" years.

Typical Woman: Fertile from age 15 to age 45, dead at 75.

With Fertility: Fertile from age 15 to age 68.5, dead at 75.

[Sprocket]

Re: Fertility & reproductive lifespan

It was a deliberate omission - apparently girls have been known to get pregnant before puberty as a result of sexual abuse. Sad, but true, & generally underreported, especially here in the US Deep South. ::sad

Also, with the Accelerated Maturation enhancement thrown into the mix, pegging it to a predetermined span of years would've been more complicated than necessary

[Seph OOC]

Certainly a lot of good stuff, but I don't buy the 'Applegates'. Eruptions have a prevailing tendancy to be violent and/or showy. And nova with the Node background can ping other novas. And a good number of novas erupted with some physical aberration that marks them as umistakably inhuman. I find the idea of "hudreds" of novas managing to fly below the radar, finding each other (if they're working so hard to not be exposed as novas, how do they even pull this off?), and taking a chance on getting pregnant to be a little farfetched. And that's aside from all these couples who eventually split up (since a majority of relationships end, that'd probably be a lot) and have an axe to grind by "outing" their ex lover, or better yet, having a quantum-powered tyke as an aggravating factor in any divorce or child custody hearing. I could see this happening in a few cases; literally, a few. But to have memos circulating amongst all the major branches as early as 2008?

Like I said, a lot of good stuff, but the idea of these secret breeders seemed to be a large point of the book, and I don't see how it works at all. Can anyone else explain this?

[Kultra]

Eh, it's as belivable as the "I'm a french lady and I can control probability in a global escale because I got Deus Ex tattooed on my forehead" explanation Sarah Roussou and the Aberrant's get...

The book also explains that indeed, Rossou is behind the "coincidental" meeting of 'Applegate' Novas, as well as the hard time the Directive, Proteus and Teragen have following them.

as I said, Deus Ex Tattoo gets to you.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

Eruptions have a prevailing tendancy to be violent and/or showy.

That certainly is what ends up in the press. For example Core erupted in a big burning globe… and then of course he used his powers to run away or simply didn’t step forward at that time. Ditto Skew for that matter. Either of them could have chosen to stay in the closet, and these are extreme eruption cases.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

And nova with the Node background can ping other novas.

How often do they do this (not unless they’re specifically looking). What’s the range (short). How common are novas (rare).

Pick a medium sized city, pretty much any medium sized city. Grand Rapids Michigan has about a quarter of a million people. So chances are they wouldn’t have any novas living there. Even if they did, all you’d have to do is avoid him… if he has node, and if he uses it. All of Michigan would statistically have 20 novas erupt (2 per million), and most of them would then leave Michigan for New York or one of the other big Nova Meccas.

If you have low quantum, low taint or dorm, don’t use your powers in flashy ways, and/or stay out of the game: staying hidden should be pretty easy if you don’t mess up during eruption. There’re lots of character concepts that work extremely well with this sort of thing.

Better still, lets say for a moment that another nova does find you. How many of our PCs, having found a closet nova, would immediately call up N! or PU and out them? Troll works for PU and he probably wouldn’t.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

And a good number of novas erupted with some physical aberration that marks them as umistakably inhuman.

Taint 4+ is rare in the first couple of decades.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

I find the idea of "hundreds" of novas managing to fly below the radar, finding each other…

It doesn’t have to be “hundreds”, simply dozens, or even “a few” work pretty well considering the stakes.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

(if they're working so hard to not be exposed as novas, how do they even pull this off?)

Some of them go public, find each other, then go back in the closet. Others benefit from that massive plot device known as Sophia.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

And that's aside from all these couples who eventually split up (since a majority of relationships end, that'd probably be a lot) and have an axe to grind by "outing" their ex lover, or better yet, having a quantum-powered tyke as an aggravating factor in any divorce or child custody hearing.

If you’re a closet nova, maybe ringing up T2M or N! and pointing them to someone else who is in the closet isn’t a good idea, especially if that other person also knows what you are.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

But to have memos circulating amongst all the major branches as early as 2008?

Presumably this is how Divis was created, although both his parents might have been unerupted high quantum baselines or had so few nova points even they didn’t know what they were. This thus becomes a pretty high priority for Project Pro, thus also for Utopia and the Aberrants.

[BlackThorn]

Doctor Troll, :up: :up: (hopefully two thumbs up)

You do good work around here and I appreciate it.

[Seph OOC]

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

That certainly is what ends up in the press. For example Core erupted in a big burning globe… and then of course he used his powers to run away or simply didn’t step forward at that time. Ditto Skew for that matter. Either of them could have chosen to stay in the closet, and these are extreme eruption cases.

Core erupted before the existence of the Directive, the Teragen, or even Project Utopia. Virtually nobody in the world was in a position to hunt down and deal with newly-erupted novas at that time, and that's why the Project was founded in the first place. As for Skew, his rather unique eruption knocked out everything electronic for several kilometers, which would include surveillance devices. Neither of those two novas make a good case for eruptions that went unnoticed. Especially now, when the proliferation of paranoia, information technology and surveillance has made few corners of the globe safe from scrutiny. I'm sorry, but I just don't see many eruptions as being quiet affairs that are easy to gloss over. Most people who erupt end up in the hospital or sending other people to the hospital. It's also telling the majority of these covert novas seem to be in America, where the regularity of prying into the lives of individual citizens is exceeded only by the socialist nanny state that is the UK.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

How often do they do this (not unless they’re specifically looking). What’s the range (short). How common are novas (rare).

Cheerfully conceded, but it only has to happen once to ruin the cover of at least one couple.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Pick a medium sized city, pretty much any medium sized city. Grand Rapids Michigan has about a quarter of a million people. So chances are they wouldn’t have any novas living there. Even if they did, all you’d have to do is avoid him… if he has node, and if he uses it. All of Michigan would statistically have 20 novas erupt (2 per million), and most of them would then leave Michigan for New York or one of the other big Nova Meccas.

Also true, but I think your supposition that most novas are going to immediately uproot and move to the big city is specious.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

If you have low quantum, low taint or dorm, don’t use your powers in flashy ways, and/or stay out of the game: staying hidden should be pretty easy if you don’t mess up during eruption. There’re lots of character concepts that work extremely well with this sort of thing.

I still think you're downplaying how easy it is for a nova to hide for that long. To pretend you don't have superpowers, to resist the urge to use them, is difficult, and sort of discounts the thousands of opportunities and bits of chaos that emerge in the average person's life that would tempt them to flex their muscle.

I also think that in general, the number of newly-erupted novas who want to hide out is going to be very, very low. Given the option between laboring in obscurity and setting yourself up for life for doing next to nothing, 99 people out of 100 are going to opt for the life that doesn't involve years labor for a dubious reward.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Better still, lets say for a moment that another nova does find you. How many of our PCs, having found a closet nova, would immediately call up N! or PU and out them? Troll works for PU and he probably wouldn’t.

Then Troll would probably get a reprimand for not putting them in contact with a Utopia liasion. If the nova recruitment effort is truly as dire as the several letters - one of them penned by JJL himself - would lead one to believe, you'd think that any responsible Utopian would contact the Project for specifically that purpose immediately. And that's discounting the Teragen completely, who, if the overall situation of novas choosing sides is as dire as the book implies, would probably be recruting new novas very aggressively, especially the ones who could breed.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Taint 4+ is rare in the first couple of decades.

Taint 4+ is uncommon in the first decade. Worldwide Phase I and II certainly seem to indicate that it's becoming an increasingly-prevailant problem in the short years to follow.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

It doesn’t have to be “hundreds”, simply dozens, or even “a few” work pretty well considering the stakes.

The book rather explicitly states that there are hundreds.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Some of them go public, find each other, then go back in the closet. Others benefit from that massive plot device known as Sophia.

"Go public, find each other, then go back in the closet"? And in a world where the chief officer of Project Utopia is issuing a missive to his employees that amounts to little more than ordering a posse to round up every nova they can find and the Directive keeps close watch with growing concern on the concept of novas breeding, you suppose that the rest of the world is going to let this happen? Now, don't misunderstand, Project Utopia, the Directive, even the Teragen, they're not the Gestapo. They're not going to hunt down novas and arrest and beat them for not cooperating. But to say nobody's watching them is crazy.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

If you’re a closet nova, maybe ringing up T2M or N! and pointing them to someone else who is in the closet isn’t a good idea, especially if that other person also knows what you are.

People let spite lead them to do some pretty strange things. More so, if any member of the couple decides to change their mind about living their private life, they run the risk of outing their entire family unit. If that internal schism precipitates a divorce, all the better.

You also skipped around the problem of child custody after a failed relationship, which I'd like to bring up again, and add that even if the nova child is born untainted of completely taint-free parents, quantum-powered temper tantrums aren't an easy thing to hide. A five year-old with Entropy Manipulation or Flight would out the entire family pretty damn quick.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Presumably this is how Divis was created, although both his parents might have been unerupted high quantum baselines or had so few nova points even they didn’t know what they were.

Presumably? Whose presumption is that? And why?

[Tempest]

Divis was (offically and in Canon) created via the Hammersmith fuck up which got the whole Trivityverse rolling.

As for the book, I found tiny bits and pieces interesting, amusing and even useful but over all I didn't like it. I doubt I'd ever use much of it in a game either.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Originally Posted By: BlackThorn

Doctor Troll, :up: :up: (hopefully two thumbs up)

You do good work around here and I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Divis was (offically and in Canon) created via the Hammersmith fuck up which got the whole Trivityverse rolling.

No, that's just how he erupted. Supposedly (i.e. one of the developer theories that was floating around) Divis was never 'just another nova', but rather a 2nd gen nova. Thus getting to the upper ranks of power was easier for him.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

Core erupted before the existence of the Directive, the Teragen, or even Project Utopia. Virtually nobody in the world was in a position to hunt down and deal with newly-erupted novas at that time, and that's why the Project was founded in the first place. As for Skew, his rather unique eruption knocked out everything electronic for several kilometers, which would include surveillance devices. Neither of those two novas make a good case for eruptions that went unnoticed.

Most of the books have several examples. Utopia has Geisha, Boyd (female investigator), & Antaous(sp). Boyd is an interesting case because even she doesn’t know when she erupted. The Directive book has that guy who erupted and only found out about it much later, and that Telepathic mole. Aberrants has the Renaissance man. The Story Teller Screen has that woman whose only power is Invisibility. The Teragen has no examples… but it’s unclear for many of them what happened during eruption since most of their stories only begin after they join the Teragen.

A significant number, perhaps even the majority, of novas step forward voluntarily to cash in or get training.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

It's also telling the majority of these covert novas seem to be in America, where the regularity of prying into the lives of individual citizens is exceeded only by the socialist nanny state that is the UK.

In other words, it’d be much easier in other countries and if they exist in America, then they can be anywhere. But motivation also plays a role here. If you live in a country where it’s a constant struggle just to survive, then using powers openly and obviously becomes a higher priority than secrecy. If you live in a country where novas are killed on sight, or forced to join the government, or otherwise enjoying extreme repression (China, parts of the Middle East) then staying in the closet and using your powers secretly, seldomly if at all, becomes more likely.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

Also true, but I think your supposition that most novas are going to immediately uproot and move to the big city is specious.

How many become elites? Join Utopia? Want one of those 10 million dollar jobs? We probably have “most novas” right off that bat from those three categories. But if they don’t want to move, that’s another reason to go it alone.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

I still think you're downplaying how easy it is for a nova to hide for that long. To pretend you don't have superpowers, to resist the urge to use them, is difficult, and sort of discounts the thousands of opportunities and bits of chaos that emerge in the average person's life that would tempt them to flex their muscle.

It depends on what those powers are. How many of us really have a daily, or even yearly, use for Quantum Bolt? Force field? Elemental Anima: Fire? Psi-Shield? Armor? Disintegration? Sure, if we’re attacked these things would come into play, but how many of us get attacked? Being able to kill with a glance simply isn’t all that useful on a day to day basis for normal people.

And then we have many useful powers that are also not very obvious. Luck. Mega-Manip. Mega-Chr. Mega-Stamina. Mega-Int.

A single dot of Mega-Manip turns you into an unreal used car salesman. If your powers lead you towards the choice of that or being an elite, some people will elect to not put their lives on the line. This is especially true if they already have established lives that they don’t want to give up.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

I also think that in general, the number of newly-erupted novas who want to hide out is going to be very, very low. Given the option between laboring in obscurity and setting yourself up for life for doing next to nothing, 99 people out of 100 are going to opt for the life that doesn't involve years labor for a dubious reward.

The best real world comparison would be Winning the Lottery. And yes, most people step forward (although I don’t think it 99 out of 100). People like their 15 minutes of fame.

On the other hand, we also have the book “The Millionaire Next Door” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door

I’ve read it, it’s interesting stuff. Two Economists looked at and interviewed dozens of millionaires to find out what they do that the rest of us don’t. Shockingly, the typical millionaire drives a pick up truck, and has a very quiet, low status lifestyle. They don’t advertise how much money they have, they spend less than they earn, and they live next door to you and me. That’s the typical millionaire, and it’s very counter intuitive, especially since CEOs and the various other ultra rich get a lot more press time.

If I ever win a big lottery, no way am I stepping forward and presenting myself as a target to every con man, thief, and self styled charity in the state. I might quit my job and do something else, but I see no reason to toss my current life into the trash just to feed CNN’s nightly news cycle.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Better still, lets say for a moment that another nova does find you. How many of our PCs, having found a closet nova, would immediately call up N! or PU and out them? Troll works for PU and he probably wouldn’t.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

Then Troll would probably get a reprimand for not putting them in contact with a Utopia liaison.

Reprimanded by who? Who’s going to know? The other nova is in the closet remember? Troll isn’t a nova recruiter, and it isn’t his job to tell other people how to live their lives.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

If the nova recruitment effort is truly as dire as the several letters - one of them penned by JJL himself - would lead one to believe, you'd think that any responsible Utopian would contact the Project for specifically that purpose immediately.

It’s a free world. If someone thinks that they aren’t strong enough to deal with that life, maybe they aren’t.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

And that's discounting the Teragen completely, who, if the overall situation of novas choosing sides is as dire as the book implies, would probably be recruting new novas very aggressively, especially the ones who could breed.

This sort of behavior is why novas stay in the closet.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

Taint 4+ is uncommon in the first decade. Worldwide Phase I and II certainly seem to indicate that it's becoming an increasingly-prevailant problem in the short years to follow.

Among novas who aren’t abusing their powers? Most of our taint problems are from lifestyle. You get a dot in temp taint, and you don’t take the time to burn it off because there are more pressing issues. Over the long term, that’s a really bad thing. Closet novas are going to have fewer issues with that because they use their powers less and can take time off.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

"Go public, find each other, then go back in the closet"? And in a world where the chief officer of Project Utopia is issuing a missive to his employees that amounts to little more than ordering a posse to round up every nova they can find and the Directive keeps close watch with growing concern on the concept of novas breeding, you suppose that the rest of the world is going to let this happen? Now, don't misunderstand, Project Utopia, the Directive, even the Teragen, they're not the Gestapo. They're not going to hunt down novas and arrest and beat them for not cooperating. But to say nobody's watching them is crazy.

I didn’t say dropping out of the nova lifestyle would be easy, but with enough money, it’s presumably possible. But granted, it would take some effort.

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

You also skipped around the problem of child custody after a failed relationship, which I'd like to bring up again, and add that even if the nova child is born untainted of completely taint-free parents, quantum-powered temper tantrums aren't an easy thing to hide. A five year-old with Entropy Manipulation or Flight would out the entire family pretty damn quick.

True. I’m not exactly skipping over it, that situation would be a big part of the game if it’s going down this path. But by this time the family has reproduced, and the stakes just got a lot higher.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

No, that's just how he erupted. Supposedly (i.e. one of the developer theories that was floating around) Divis was never 'just another nova', but rather a 2nd gen nova. Thus getting to the upper ranks of power was easier for him.

Developer theories are just that. They are not published Canon. There is nothing in any of the books that I have that suggest the Adventure Canon is incorrect. Thus, Divis is the first Nova and has been a Nova since the roaring 20's....That's plenty of time for him to develop anything you want him to have...

[Catalyst]

Ezra has a few powers now, but in the large scale of things she is in the open not because of what her powers do. In fact her powers are not suited for the world at large, and as such she largely hides them.

People know she is a nova, just not what her powers are. SHe could easily just be "proven" a fake..

This is to bring a point up..Why would someone who can control people's minds want to come forth and say it?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

Developer theories are just that.

Ya, true, although had the line developed I wonder.

But does it really matter whether Mal is a normal nova with lots of experience who somehow build Crysolis, or a 2nd gen prodigy, or even something else? Mal is a demo of how powerful novas can get. From the Directive's and Project Pro's view point, the world doesn't need a dozen more Divis Mals. If 2nd gen novas are much stronger than their parents... how much of that theory do they really want to test?

Similarly, "Hatchers" is only a twisted theory... but the outcome if it's true is so bad the big groups can't afford to test it.

Originally Posted By: Catalyst

Ezra has a few powers now...

Who?

[Good Alice]

Mal is in my book not a nova.Or rather what Novas should be.I am not sure.I think Taint is because Mal Made novas and did not get it down right, and taint is the flaw.I guess.

Sort of like a photo copy or recording of a tape...Things were copied but not perfectly.

[Dr. Wombat]

I would genuinely like to congratulate everyone who worked on this, it can not have been an easy task and this is a very nicely done piece of work.

Bravo.

That being said, it's not something that fits in well with my particular take on things and I question some of the items presented. (Yeah, I know, first post and I'm already complaining... I get better, honestly...)

For the most part, I never had much use for the retrovirus concept. I actually forget where I first came across it, but it struck me as something so insanely dangerous in potential for it to ever be used (Nice inclusion, by the by, of it being possibly/partially responsible for some of the taint-based diseases in the Trinity time period). However, to have it be the product of pure luck is a tad too much for me to take. The sterilization portion of the conspiracy had to be planned from day one, as it fits in perfectly with the general, 'let's keep their numbers down until we figure out what to do' aspect, so to have it depend on chance is hard for me to swallow. Generally speaking, Proteus would not have had to sterilize all novas to succeed in its basic goal. Merely making the vast bulk of them unable to have children, through the originally stated laced pharmaceuticals, would be sufficient.

Except...

And here we come to the other major part of the book I disagree with...

Except for the concept of the 2nd Gen novas presented in the book. Given this idea, it's small wonder that Proteus would be adamant about sterilizing all novas, no matter what. Unfortunately, while it's an interesting idea, I can find nothing in the canon that would support the idea that the children of novas would turn out like the 2nd Gen are presented.

And with that, I'm off...

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Welcome to the boards Dr. Wombat!

Originally Posted By: Dr. Wombat

For the most part, I never had much use for the retrovirus concept. I actually forget where I first came across it, but it struck me as something so insanely dangerous in potential for it to ever be used (Nice inclusion, by the by, of it being possibly/partially responsible for some of the taint-based diseases in the Trinity time period). However, to have it be the product of pure luck is a tad too much for me to take. The sterilization portion of the conspiracy had to be planned from day one, as it fits in perfectly with the general, 'let's keep their numbers down until we figure out what to do' aspect, so to have it depend on chance is hard for me to swallow. Generally speaking, Proteus would not have had to sterilize all novas to succeed in its basic goal. Merely making the vast bulk of them unable to have children, through the originally stated laced pharmaceuticals, would be sufficient.

With cannon what it is, we are missing three things.

1) Back up plans. Unless you sterilize other novas and not just the ones in the clinic, the plot gets revealed extremely soon. In an ideal world, mother nature would do much of the work for them. High quantum makes you inhuman. Taint does the same. Thus many or most novas have problems having children anyway, at least with baselines. This would be my preferred solution, but I’m not sure there’s any evidence for this, and there is at least some evidence for the conspiracy being the root of all evil here.

2) Opportunity. How did they get a nova effecting drug developed, and distributed, close to day one?

3) Motivation. Why do it? IMHO this is the really hard part. Eon is a charity and humanitarian organization, attempted genocide isn’t the obvious approach for such a group. Project Pro went to a lot of trouble, and took a huge amount of risk in setting this up. The chances of it coming out at some point were high, the repercussions would be extremely high, the difficulty and expense to set it up was also high.

Personally I’d rather go with “time travel” as the solution for points 2 and 3 (and maybe even 1). Eon finds Max’s diary, they know N-Day and the war are coming, they make plans. This would explain so MUCH… but there isn’t any cannon support for it. Note even with Max’s knowledge of the war, we still don’t really have sufficient motivation for sterilization. The 2nd gen needs to be a huge threat in and of themselves before any of this makes any sense.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Wombat

Except for the concept of the 2nd Gen novas presented in the book. Given this idea, it's small wonder that Proteus would be adamant about sterilizing all novas, no matter what. Unfortunately, while it's an interesting idea, I can find nothing in the canon that would support the idea that the children of novas would turn out like the 2nd Gen are presented.

Cannon support is light, but there. Bounty’s children descriptions. Alien like Mal, inhuman in ways unlike the Harvesters. It’s implied they are potential Mals. Adam was a freak of nature, but still. Let’s see if I can find a quote… it’s something someone else posted, but.. pg 79 - "Mal is foreboding, one could even say sublime....cannot shake my sense of unease. Even with the inhuman Harvesters I don't have this feeling. No matter how freakish they look, I can still feel they were once human and baseline. Not with Mal. Like the children, he possesses a certain detachment, an abstract bemusement that makes him at once a visionary and an angel.” And earlier, "the children can feel him." (reference to Mal in Chrysalis)

Then we have the non-cannon developer stuff. Ian Watson supposedly said the 2nd generation would be alien having grown up with quantum they’d be unable to relate to baselines and even 1st gen novas, they’d have much less taint and more power. Divis was supposedly 2nd gen.

[Dr. Wombat]

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Welcome to the boards Dr. Wombat!

Thank you. I recently dug out my Aberrant books with an eye to possibly setting up a campaign and stumbled across the site here whilst doing some research.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

With cannon what it is, we are missing three things.
1) Back up plans. Unless you sterilize other novas and not just the ones in the clinic, the plot gets revealed extremely soon. In an ideal world, mother nature would do much of the work for them. High quantum makes you inhuman. Taint does the same. Thus many or most novas have problems having children anyway, at least with baselines. This would be my preferred solution, but I’m not sure there’s any evidence for this, and there is at least some evidence for the conspiracy being the root of all evil here.
2) Opportunity. How did they get a nova effecting drug developed, and distributed, close to day one?
3) Motivation. Why do it? IMHO this is the really hard part. Eon is a charity and humanitarian organization, attempted genocide isn’t the obvious approach for such a group. Project Pro went to a lot of trouble, and took a huge amount of risk in setting this up. The chances of it coming out at some point were high, the repercussions would be extremely high, the difficulty and expense to set it up was also high.

Personally I’d rather go with “time travel” as the solution for points 2 and 3 (and maybe even 1). Eon finds Max’s diary, they know N-Day and the war are coming, they make plans. This would explain so MUCH… but there isn’t any cannon support for it. Note even with Max’s knowledge of the war, we still don’t really have sufficient motivation for sterilization. The 2nd gen needs to be a huge threat in and of themselves before any of this makes any sense.

1) Very good point, but if Proteus is using nova-level contraception secretly placed in the nova-only drugs, there's less of a risk since the drugs in question are addictive. Also, it does provide a mechanical bonus that might ease player objection to it's use in game. Now, most, nearly all, novas are dosed with both mox and adrenocilin, given adrenocilin's beneficial affects (and addictive properties) most will continue to take it. Those that don't will be the hardcore anti-Utopia crowd (i.e. Teragen and other assorted riff-raff). The trick here is to figure out a rationale as to why they aren't (yet) able to blow the lid off of the conspiracy. But then again, the conspiracy is starting to fray even in the main book. There are problems with this take too, I grant, but given the state of the canon, there's problems with every take.

2) Much the same problem exists with the aforementioned nova-only drugs. However, there might be a solution, which I will be babbling about in point three.

3) To me, this is the easy one. They're not attempting to commit genocide, they're trying to limit the growth rate to a "manageable" level. I've always gone with the approach that Aeon's intentions were good and noble, they don't want novas going power-mad, they don't want baselines turning into xenophobic lynch mobs, the best way to handle it was to mould novas into paragons and to limit their numbers. The catch being that nothing is ever simple, and infringing on people's liberties generally annoys them. The thing that occurred to me was that Aeon new that novas were a possibility, Max and the others had faced off against Primoris/Mal in '43, after all. They would have seen the power a nova could wield, and it probably scared the hell out of them. (I am aware that there is an opinion that Mal is not a nova, but even more awesome, but that's not really supported, IMHO. Saying that he erupted as a 30 NP nova in '22 and then spent decades honing his powers can easily give us the same plot device character that we see running about in the Nova Age.) Knowing that there was a chance that more of these beings might show up, possibly having some lower powered ones working for them (yes, I do equate stalwarts with novas, it makes sense to me), Aeon could easily begin researching nova powers/physiology and be in a perfect position to use this information on N-Day. Again, I postulate a "OMG, let's keep this controlled." reaction fuelled by the best of intentions, Proteus wasn't trying to wipe out nova-kind, they were trying to prevent disaster. Tragically, using underhanded methods erodes morality and usually transforms even the best of people into malicious scum-suckers.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Cannon support is light, but there. Bounty’s children descriptions. Alien like Mal, inhuman in ways unlike the Harvesters. It’s implied they are potential Mals. Adam was a freak of nature, but still. Let’s see if I can find a quote… it’s something someone else posted, but.. pg 79 - "Mal is foreboding, one could even say sublime....cannot shake my sense of unease. Even with the inhuman Harvesters I don't have this feeling. No matter how freakish they look, I can still feel they were once human and baseline. Not with Mal. Like the children, he possesses a certain detachment, an abstract bemusement that makes him at once a visionary and an angel.” And earlier, "the children can feel him." (reference to Mal in Chrysalis)

OK, well... gee... you got me there. I think it's spectacularly light and not much to go on, but the kernel of the idea is there. It doesn't fit with what I'm doing with my game, so I'm going to work around it. Which is frighteningly easy given that it's completely subjective. Bounty may well be projecting, day-dreaming, or misinterpreting things. This is, ultimately, one of the things that frustrates me about WW. Great ideas, horrible execution. Part of me enjoys the view from within the game, but at the same time I find myself wanting them to just come out and say, as creators, what they intend.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Then we have the non-cannon developer stuff. Ian Watson supposedly said the 2nd generation would be alien having grown up with quantum they’d be unable to relate to baselines and even 1st gen novas, they’d have much less taint and more power. Divis was supposedly 2nd gen.

Obviously, I don't have a problem with non-canon, much of what I do and plan is, by definition, non-canon. But this is the kind of thing that makes it so difficult to have a solid conversation about WW's products. I mean, if that's what was intended, why not just tell us and get on with the story? By leaving it up in the air, subject to various interpretations of vague hints, they're causing a huge disconnect to occur between the fans of the game.

Having now droned on enough, I shall take my leave...

For now...

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

The catch being that nothing is ever simple, and infringing on people's liberties generally annoys them.

I came across a reference that said that as far as anyone knew in 2007 (or maybe 2008), the total number of children for all of nova-dom was exactly zero. Zero children is more than trying to keep the numbers manageable.

Making that fit in with India syndrom novas and even 1998 novas is a challenge. Not everyone took the drugs. One dot of Mega-App or Mega-Chr equals unlimited sex if you're into that sort of thing. Hundreds of novas, some of them are going to be lusty males (or even lusty females) who will take advantage of the situation.

One obvious approach is that Project Pro simply covered up the records. Joe nova sired a dozen kids before getting "fixed", but Pro blamed it on other people by fixing the DNA tests so he doesn't match. But this also raises the issue of how Joe Nova, who erupted in 1998 and thus was passed the headache period before the drugs came out, got fixed.

Another easy alternative solution is to say that Project Pro was excessive, and Theis was extremely excessive, even nuts. This makes attempted genocide the result of bad management and one really twisted leader rather than a delibrate choice by upper management based on hidden information. I'm not a fan of this approach because we already have a known time traveler running around, so I'd like to kill many plot holes with one rock, but it can be done.

Another solution BTW is to make that virus spread through sex as well as through the drugs.

Quote:

I think it's spectacularly light and not much to go on...

Agreed. It's very easy to disgard and can (and should) be lightly disgarded if the ST has any other plans.

And something I didn't mention was that the developers didn't see eye to eye on various matters.

[Dr. Wombat]

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

I came across a reference that said that as far as anyone knew in 2007 (or maybe 2008), the total number of children for all of nova-dom was exactly zero. Zero children is more than trying to keep the numbers manageable.

Making that fit in with India syndrom novas and even 1998 novas is a challenge. Not everyone took the drugs. One dot of Mega-App or Mega-Chr equals unlimited sex if you're into that sort of thing. Hundreds of novas, some of them are going to be lusty males (or even lusty females) who will take advantage of the situation.

One obvious approach is that Project Pro simply covered up the records. Joe nova sired a dozen kids before getting "fixed", but Pro blamed it on other people by fixing the DNA tests so he doesn't match. But this also raises the issue of how Joe Nova, who erupted in 1998 and thus was passed the headache period before the drugs came out, got fixed.

Another easy alternative solution is to say that Project Pro was excessive, and Theis was extremely excessive, even nuts. This makes attempted genocide the result of bad management and one really twisted leader rather than a delibrate choice by upper management based on hidden information. I'm not a fan of this approach because we already have a known time traveler running around, so I'd like to kill many plot holes with one rock, but it can be done.

Another solution BTW is to make that virus spread through sex as well as through the drugs.

Hrmm, yes, that little line in the timeline does rather snarl up my train of thought. Curse you for making articulate and well-founded counter-arguments! (j/k) Ultimately, I suspect I'll be spinning more and more out of canon as I continue working on things.

When we come right down to it, I really just don't like the retrovirus idea. I'm not a huge fan of the Awesomely Mighty & Infallible Conspiracy™ either, nor the All-Powerful NPC Centre of the Universe™ (I know, what am I doing playing a WW game...), but there are some neat themes and ideas to kick around here.

My aversion to the retrovirus (and this is intensified if it is made transmissible) is that I suspect it would mutate into something that would affect baselines. I mean, we're talking about a virus that was designed to sterilize beings who are almost entirely human except that they have better immune systems and such. This is really playing with fire and I can't help but think that someone would have realised this and pulled the plug.

I'd like to thank you for making some good, solid points here, by the by, it's given me a bit to think on and try and work out.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

Quote:

I think it's spectacularly light and not much to go on...

Agreed. It's very easy to disgard and can (and should) be lightly disgarded if the ST has any other plans.

And something I didn't mention was that the developers didn't see eye to eye on various matters.

Yeah, I, myself, am not going to use it, but at least now I see where it came from.

Interesting. So the developers may never have actually decided on the final details during the life of the line? If so, much becomes frighteningly clear to me...

[Courier]

Quote:

...This is really playing with fire and I can't help but think that someone would have realised this and pulled the plug.

I don't disagree... but Theis liked playing with fire. Better still, I don't know how you "pull the plug" after it's out there. Sexually transmitted diseases are extremely difficult to reign in after they are out.

Ideally it would be something where the baseline population would be the host animal but only novas would be effected.

Another issue here is motivation. If it's all about numbers management, then you don't take the risk. If you are trying to prevent the creation of hatchers and hundreds of insane 2nd gen Q8+ novas... then you are already running risks, the question is which is worse.

Edit: This is Troll.

[HyperFocus]

RE: Awesomely Mighty & Infallible Conspiracy™ and All-Powerful NPC Centre of the Universe™

The great thing about Mme. Rosseau is that she is an utter cipher in the Aeonverse. Her powers are nebulous and unorthodox, in contrast to the more obvious powers possessed by other +5 quantum novas. She's obviously very active in her movement but appears to merely facilitate its growth rather then direct its development.

I think a toned down version of Sophia's Awesomely Mighty & Infallible Conspiracy™ could work effectively in a game without acting as deus ex machina.

Lets re approach Rosseaus power profile. Obviously she has advanced control and perception of probability as well as offensive and defensive techniques, though she rarely has had to use them. While Mal and Pax are quantum buttered comic book marvels (A cape Divis? Are you for real?) Sophias powers are much more subtle. Think cyberkinetic, infokenetic, precognition, intuition, luck, and probably a few powers we don't names for.

Approached this way Sophia doesn't need to be rewriting peoples destinies all willy-nilly to be leading an effective conspiracy to match and camoflouge prospective breeder couples. Her precognition allows her to predict viable matches with uncanny accuracy...all she needs to do is maneuver them into proximity with each other and let nature take its course. Without their knowledge she conspires to obfuscate their identities, rearrange records and deflect investigation. Most of these couples are already laying low but Sophias minipulations increase the efficacy of their efforts by orders of magnitude. Each of these couples is a special project of hers, so the number is probably vastly reduced from that quoted in A Breed Apart. Say, 30 or 40 couples?

This way Rosseau gets to stay a Woman of Mysterious Mystery™ and not an All-Powerful NPC Centre of the Universe™ You can use the Applegate type families though they may be more infrequent and scattered (outside the first world, where record keeping and policing may be more lax).

I also think its a nifty way to expose your character to the implications of high quantam applications of the less flashy powers. We can all imagine what a Q7 quantum bolt can do...but Q7 infokenisis or luck actually scare the bejezzus out of me.

[Blue Thunder]

Quote:

Lets re approach Rosseaus power profile. Obviously she has advanced control and perception of probability as well as offensive and defensive techniques, though she rarely has had to use them. While Mal and Pax are quantum buttered comic book marvels (A cape Divis? Are you for real?) Sophias powers are much more subtle. Think cyberkinetic, infokenetic, precognition, intuition, luck, and probably a few powers we don't names for.

There is nothing in canon that ever says Sophia has power over probability, or over computers, intuition, luck, etc. How is this "obvious"? This may have been something the developrs had planned, and if it is, then alright, but this has never made it into the books. With the exception of an uber-Psychic Shield and some power similar to Disintegration, nothing about her Quantum abilities can be confirmed.

And if Sophia has potent Q6 Precognition, then what use would she have for Rania? Rania is an Aberrant that can detect future events. I'm not saying that since Rania has Pretercog, Sophia can't have Pretercog, but it seems from WW:P2 that Sophia and the Aberrants rely on Rania's visions to detect when the sh*t is about to hit the fan.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Originally Posted By: Blue Thunder

There is nothing in canon that ever says Sophia has power over probability, or over computers, intuition, luck, etc.

What very little we know about her is this:

1) She's been around a while, she seems to know everyone and everyone seems to know her, but exactly what and how is unclear even to the people who should know better. I.e. the problem isn't like Pax's eruption, where people know but we don't know, the problem is everyone seems to know her but they don't remember how.
2) She has Disin or something darn close, she used it on a mitoid.
3) She is surreally, absurdly better at games of chance than Count "O".
4) Everyone with the name "Sophia Rosseau" in England had all of their computer records destroyed.
5) She's the leader of the Aberrants.
6) Mental Static.

All of these things suggest, strongly, that she's a very strong Entropy Controller.

RE: #1
Note there are techniques in Entropy Control that prevent people from thinking about things. I think the Q-min is 7.

RE: #2
Entropy Control has that technique for inflicting damage which is unsoakable unless you have Hardbody. However from the description I'd guess she went further than that.

RE: #3
Luck and/or Entropy Control.

RE: #4
The incident kind of speaks for itself. CyberK and/or Entropy Control yet again, but whatever it was it was over a wide area. I suppose it could be done with just Entropy Control... maybe. I'd really like to see some CyberK with this.

RE: #5
It's interesting that she seems to know a lot of what is going on in the Abby-verse. Goes towards supporting CyberK.

RE: #6
This description fits the theme of Entropy control with Mastery. Granted, it fits other themes as well.

Conclusion: Very limited info, but I'd give her Entropy Control as her general theme, with a VERY early eruption. From that theme we get the other abilities... but it's especially interesting that she seems to operate on a high power level.

Correction: It's really tempting to sub in Information Manip over CyberK. She seems more able to destroy information than manipulate computers.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Further Correction: Sophia is a telepath or something since she's sensed something odd about that Precog in AB:Aberrants. This goes towards the "enhanced perceptions" that sometimes comes into play since supposedly you'd need to be very tallented at Telepathy in order to sense this.

IMHO the picture that emerges from all this data is someone who can control information and propability over very large areas.

[Joseph OOC]

Debating Aberrant canon is pretty absurd in and of itself, because WW left it purposefully vague and ambiguous by presenting all but the essential parts of it in the subjective viewpoint of letters, news reports and etc. Personally, I think this is a great design decision, because it lets each individual reader get his or her own idea about the whole, or even play with various ideas, and not really be wrong. WHich in turn gives STs a lot of leeway to move things about without puncturing the "canon bubble".