Technique: Temporal Manipulation: Extra-Temporal Travel

[Timeslip]

[size:+2]Temporal Manipulation

[size:+1]Extra-Temporal Travel

Quantum Minimum: 6

Dice Pool: Intelligence + Temporal Manipulation

Range: Self

Area: N/A

Duration: Special

_____This ability allows a nova to step out of the temporal stream, permitting the nova to travel to any location that can be reached under his own power for the duration of the ability.

_____To use Extra-Temporal Travel, a nova spends the required quantum points, and the player rolls Intelligence + Temporal Manipulation. For each success, the power grants the nova one hour of subjective duration; to an objective observer, no time passes. Each point of Quantum the nova has counts as an automatic success.

_____While travelling by such means, a nova cannot affect the physical world around them. He cannot open doors, break windows, move or damage objects or people, operate motor vehicles, turn pages, dive through water, etc. He can, however, use whatever means of self-transport are at his disposal, including quantum abilities such as Quantum Leap and Flight, for as long as the subjective duration of the power lasts; at the end of the duration, the user returns to normal time wherever their travel has ended.

_____It is worth noting that, because of the extra-temporal nature of this technique, Attunement and the use thereof is both very important and very narrowly defined. Indeed, with no Attunement, the nova would be trapped in place by his own clothing, which would not be included in the extra-temporal "bubble". Nor can he Attune something after activating the technique; once the "bubble" is formed, the nova cannot affect things outside of it in any way, even to Attune them. Should the nova drop something, however - or set something down, or trim a fingernail, or spit, or some other method of removing something from contact with his body - that object will become unattuned, removed from the "bubble" and subjectively frozen in time like everything else around the nova.

[GDP_ST]

I like it.

Seconded.

[Cosmic Comet]

I really like this as well. You got my vote

[Machina]

With enough Attunement, what would happen if someone brought, say, a gun or a BFG with them? Can it effect the world around? Can it even fire? Would the nova's watch stop? Can they button and unbutton their clothes? What happens if they spit, or urinate?

Just niggling questions that might demand an answer. I think it's a good power, but I'd tweak it.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Machina:
With enough Attunement, what would happen if someone brought, say, a gun or a BFG with them? Can it effect the world around? Can it even fire? Would the nova's watch stop? Can they button and unbutton their clothes? What happens if they spit, or urinate?

Just niggling questions that might demand an answer. I think it's a good power, but I'd tweak it.

AFAICT, a gun would be a bad thing to fire since it's bullet would hit the edge of an attuned space and then bounce. Assuming attune, the nova's watch wouldn't stop and he wouldn't have problems with clothes.

Without attunement he'd end up naked or just stuck like a fly in amber.

I suggest something about attunement be added, this power would be difficult to use without at least a little.

[Timeslip]

Normal Attunement rules would apply; that is to say, if you have enough dots in Attunement to carry X with you, you can carry X with you. If X leaves your person, X is no longer affected. If you want to use the power and have no Attunement, you'd better be naked.

Beyond that, it is - like with so many other powers - up to the ST/troupe to decide when things get "niggling".

In the case of the gun, I'd say that firing such would be a Bad Idea, because the bullet would stop immediately outside the barrel... backing up the charge and probably tearing the gun apart right there in the nova's hand.

Buttoning and unbuttoning clothes? Sure... but once you set them down and let go of them, they're out of the effect and effectively abandoned for the duration.

Spitting? Stops right outside the mouth. (Ick)

Peeing? Fine until your done (continuous stream, thus connected to the body), at which point you leave a "pee-cicle" standing there. (Ick)

This is, to use Machina's term, niggling stuff.

[Machina]

Like Troll said, I'd throw in something about Attunement. Then again, I think they should've done the same thing with Teleport. That was one rude awakening for the first person in my game to use that power sans Attunement.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Can you grab things while they are frozen and attune them?

[Timeslip]

Lemmy: nope. My understanding of it is if something ain't attuned at the start of a power use like this, you're shit out of luck. I'm pretty sure, for example, that you can't have Immolate up, reach out and grab something, and suddenly have that something immune to your Immolate. And with this power in particular, you have the additional problem that you are temporally completely out of synch with your surroundings; indeed, it's debatable as to whether or not you can even fully "touch" your surroundings, or whether you're separated from them by a wafer-thin temporal "bubble".

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Lemmy Chillmeister: Can you grab things while they are frozen and attune them?

Good question.

With most powers you could, i.e. you can bodymorph and then attune something, or even immolate and then attune something (although it takes damage first). With Immolate there is even a way around the damage if you have enough attune and take care. You can attune a pole or something, not extend the immolate over the pole even though it is attuned, then touch the pole to something and then attune that (see APG's re-write of attune).

However IMHO the best comparison would be time-stop, and you can't attune something covered by an area time-stop for the same reason you can q-bolt it. If time has halted then it's immune to everything because there's literally no time in which it to be effected.

[Erin 'Stellar' Donovan]

Actually, in one of the books it describes Figment dropping down from a catwalk, invisible and phased (DD), passing through the speaker and stage and then grabbing a bomb and attuning in as she continues to fall, pulling it into the earth with her and then release it.

So I would indeed say you can attune stuff after you have used the power.

[Timeslip]

I'd have to go with Dr. Troll on this one; it's pretty much in the same park as Time Stop - and would be a bit broken if it wasn't. In an effort to resolve the issue, I have now defined how Attunement works with this technique in the description.

[Singularity]

I support this power with this understanding: this power essentially works like an inverse Stop Time, meaning you cannot interact with any objects in the world surrounding you in any fashion. That seems to be self-evident to me when reading the power (and by Timeslip's own posts), but judging by the conversation it isn't that obvious.

Hence, with that specific understanding, I vote to support the power. (and if other people support it, I'd advise you to explicitly vote for it if you haven't already)

[Mr Frost]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
This ability allows a nova to step out of the temporal stream...

Quote:

Originally posted by Erin 'Stellar' Donovan:
So I would indeed say you can attune stuff after you have used the power.

Once out of the time stream the traveler and "all else" are no longer in the same location. Using Timeslip's write up and logic; once this power goes into effect it would be not unlike trying to attune an object on the other side of the world. Its is simply not "here".

Stellar brings up a valid point but the player is answering the question in advance rather than waiting for it to be the subject of an errata at a later date. Can't be done, its built that way in the power description.

I support the power with this understanding as to its limitation.

For an extended treatment of the effects of a power like this try reading this .

[Tommy Tomorrow]

This is a great write up, mechanically sound, but I see an in-game problem. Or more accurately a misuse.

Assume for a moment my namesake Tommy Tomorrow developed this ability and saw a need to remove Caestus Pax from this mortal coil. He bides his time, get his hands on a BFG rail gun (magnetic propulsion) then one day Pax is coming to the opening of the new super Mall in Nevada. Tommy shows up, pulls his gun out of the trunk and stops time. He spend fifteen minute trying to wade through the immobile crowd before realizing its faster to simply climb on top of them and steps from head to head as he nears the platform. Then he pulls the trigger from point blank range with the barrel inches away from Pax's head. Of course the bullet stops a millimeter outside of the gun barrel but Tommy thinks quickly and after shifting position tries again. And again. And so on. Finally with only a few minutes left of his power he walks back across the heads of the frozen crowd to his car where he drops the gun in the still open trunk and waits.

Time restarts.

To the sound of multiple overlapping thunders as 127 hypercore rounds strike Pax's skull simultaneously Tommy gets in his car and drives away.

If nothing else I'd limit the duration. Severely. My personal preference would be to call this a concentration power with the need to focus on keeping ones self apart from the time stream (i.e. no combat).

Added note; Although Dr Troll supposes a projectile would bounce, there's actually nothing in this write up that lends credence to that idea. The projectile appears to stop at the edge of the temporal envelope apparently with its kinetic energy still intact.

[Timeslip]

Tommy Tomorrow,

I actually addressed the gun issue in one of my earlier posts here:

,,

Quote:

In the case of the gun, I'd say that firing such would be a Bad Idea, because the bullet would stop immediately outside the barrel... backing up the charge and probably tearing the gun apart right there in the nova's hand.

Yes, I know that not every potential for abuse is specifically addressed in the description of the power. That said, such is the case for a large number of the various published powers; in a setting and with a system such as Aberrant, you can just never plug all the holes, and a lot of it will come down to responsible roleplaying and ST (or, in the case of N!Prime, peer) review.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Ah, it's been edited. Looks good to me.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Timeslip;

I know you tried to address the issue but if you'll note, your answer doesn't apply to the situation I created. I'm not trying to niggle you to death but anything that allows that sort of action is something that should get an extra close review. Not because its poorly concepted (it's actually very well conceptualized and I say that as someone that knows the book Frost referred to) or because its not thought out (I think you've put a great deal of effort into ramifications) but simply because it allows something so incredible. In this case you are proposing a power that on the surface looks to be invisibility, aspects of extra actions, multiple actions, and has some of the benefits being intangible.

I LIKE the idea. Actually I love it. But just because I like it doesn't mean I think it should be allowed into the game with expressing my reservations. A combination of powers might be disallowed simply because I know an individual and what they want the combination for. That's where being an ST and peer review comes in. There are other cases where I think a power, despite being well thought out and in line with a core concept like time manipulation shouldn't be allowed because although it fits thematically its too powerful as a single effect. This power, in essence, puts the universe in a time stop. While you as a player might not use it that way this is still the effect and that brings up question as to whether its really beyond level 4.

If you want to say that all energy states drop to the minimum as something crosses out of the bubble, a projectile loses its kinetic energy or a laser beam tranduces to a warm glow, then most of my qualms about abuse disappear but its still a very powerful effect to call a level 4 technique.

I don't think this should be allowed without explicitly addressing issues of power level and potential for abuse. If ST/Peer Review were effective then there wouldn't be a push for the new 2008 subnet.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Addendum;

Its worth noting a nova using this ability is not constrained by the immobility of air molecules. The air doesn't keep them from moving and they don't suffocate from lack of breathable air.

[Timeslip]

Suffice to say that a certain amount of common-sense has to be used with this sort of thing. Yes, I could write a three-page treatment that would dot every "i" and cross every "t", specifically accounting for things just as the breathability of air and keeping folks from lining up a hundred bullets... but I'm not going to do so. I'm going to show a little bit of faith and trust in the rest of the N!Prime community. I'm also going to remember the following:

* The character contract permits folks to veto things from affecting their characters,

* The canon-protective elements of the FAQ prevent folks from doing truly heinous stuff to the canon NPCs, and

* The community as a whole can vote fictions to be non-canon in the event that they get cheesetastic.

These three factors provide a great deal of protection from not only the potential abuses of this proposed technique, but indeed from all of the potential abuses of the many vaguely-written canon powers.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

I said it was worth noting. I didn't say or imply you should be required to write a multipage thesis on why that was the case.

Beyond that... I've expressed my concerns with the ramifications of the power as proposed, hence explaining why I'm not a supporter of the power as written despite the fact I like the idea.

[Timeslip]

Unfortunately, if I start going down the road of noting everything that is worth noting, I'm going to wind up with that multipage thesis.

Also, there's the minor techinicality that I've already posted the bloody thing for Director/Admin review, and if I recall correctly, it's frowned upon to change the proposal once it is at that stage, other than at their direction.

[Timeslip]

You know what? Screw it. I'm going to alter the proposal in the Director/Admin review thread. If the Directors don't like it, so be it. I'm doing so, not because I think the proposal is bad as it stands, but because it's not worth the hassle of fighting for a common sense approach around here.

Edit: done.

[Dorothy Roberts]

Timeslip: I love the power, but I'm in full agreement with Tommy here. I'm going to re-hash his scenario slightly.

A nova with this power (let's call him Blitz) wants to kill every member of Team Tomorrow. Blitz waits for the next T2M press conference held outdoors, or he stages an 'incident' to get them outdoors. Then Blitz straps on a bunch of bandoliers of grenades, attunes them, and activates the power.

Blitz walks casually over to the now-frozen T2M. He's got Temporal Manipulation, so he's got Time Sense for free. So when he pulls the pin from Grenade A, he waits 4.9 out of 5 seconds before letting it go - right next to Pax's head. He continues this until Bandolier number one is empty, and moves on to Bandolier number 2. And 3. And 4. Up to a hundred pounds of grenades. Or plastique. Or fissionable materials. Then he leaves and goes far-far away - with several hours of play time left.

Now, let's make this power Concentration based - you can move around, but the only 'action' you're allowed is 'maintaining yourself outside the timestream'. Suddenly, you can't do any of those nifty things. Sure, you can slip up right next to Pax - but you're not pulling the pins on your grenades until you've dropped the power. Likewise, you're not taking the grenades off the bandoliers until you've dropped the power. Or dropped anything worth dropping.

Alternately, you can say that 'as soon as something leaves your temporal field, the effect ends'. You can STILL get the drop on someone. But you're only going to get off one bullet, or throw one grenade.

And if you're curious why I think so strongly about this, the VERY FIRST thing I thought of when I read the power description was 'wow, what a great power for someone with a lot of explosives'.

And I'm sorry this is a bit late as a critique. I started writing this a couple hours ago but got distracted.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

That's right, you could pull something like this. You get to put a shaped charge on every member of T2M. Every one of them takes, what?, 10 dice of lethal damage? 15?

This is a Q6 min power. She could also toss out Q-Bolt+Area+Mastery. She could also de-age every member of T2M by 20 years from a distance of miles away (although I'd say Adaptability would help with that one).

This is what it is, but the real issue is whether it should be Q6, Q7, or Q8. I don't see it at Q8.

[Timeslip]

I'm very, very done tweaking this thing. It's done. Either the Directors approve it, or they don't... and at this point, I'm almost beyond caring which.

[Timeslip]

And by the way: there's nothing to stop someone from pulling similarly "explosive" stunts with Teleport or Warp. Open itty-bitty warp, chuck bomb through, close warp... that sort of thing.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
This is what it is, but the real issue is whether it should be Q6, Q7, or Q8.

It's been submitted to the directors. That means the discussion is over.