Unbeatable

[Jager]

What is tough?

Who is unbeatable?

Which NPC's are Q:6+ as of 2015?

How do we rate PC's against NPC's? Do we let Player control that, or is it up to the posting body?

When I posted my story "Goodbye", I had Jager take on and defeat both Geryon and Leviathan. To me, I have always seen Jager as being that capable. I didn't mean to minimalize the importance or power of those two canon NPC's, but to place Jager in context compared to those two.

Many people thought taht was too much. How do we handle those things? To me, it is part of Jager's core that he is that tough. I also think that to act in a canon world means we act wtih canon personas. If we don't, why is this a canon setting?

[Gerald Haney]

It is a canon setting but those canon characters are not yours and yours only. You use them, especially in that way, you change them for all of us.

If we had a community pool just because you don't think that taking a piss in it is okay doesn't mean that you doing so doesn't effect me.

Your counter argument to this in Chat was "Well, Geryon is shown being beaten by Nippontai so he's obviously not that tough." and "Where does it show that Leviathan is that tough?".

You can't have both. Either they are that tough, which is why you chose them and you then punked them out for the rest of us or they aren't that tough and you are defeating your own argument because Jager defeating them doesn't mean anything.

If you really want to make Jager powerful you can put some work into it, create some NPCs of your own, flesh them out and then punk them to Jags. You define Jager but you don't piss in the pool for the rest of us.

[Jager]

Gerald, you didn't answer the initial questions.

[Ptesan-Wi]

What is tough?

Shen-Khan, with his 60+ soak and force-field and Hardbody and various Invulnerabilities is tough in a straight-up fight. Amped is tough when he's in motion. Timeslip is tough if she has enough reaction time to slip away elsewhere. Leviathen is tough. Geryon is tough. It's all situational, really.

What is unbeatable?

Nothing is unbeatable. Given the right application of numbers, powers and tactics, anything can be brought down. Geryon and Leviathen together can probably kick Pax's ass -- or your ass, for that matter. The WCK as a coherent team operating under a good plan can probably cream Geryon and Leviathen. Shen Khan went down to combined arms. Given the right circumstances, even Mal could be taken, if one could arrange for him to be without his followers in a place of one's choosing with the right forces at one's disposal.

Which NPCs are Q6+ as of 2015?

Mal and Pax, of course. Also, probably any member of the Teragen that (1) was powerful in 2008, (2) has gone through one or more Chrysalis' since then, and (3) is still breathing; Geryon and Leviathen are damned good examples, as are the Mathematician and Scripture. Certain high-end Utopians should also be in the Q6+ Club. Portman probably isn't; he seemed to be the sort to avoid pushing himself. Rousseau might be, as may be a number of indies, such as Totentanz. But by and large, you'll see a disproportionate number of Q6+ers in the Teragen, due to Chrysalis and their exceptance of pushing themselves with disregard for humanity.

How do we rate PC's against NPC's? Do we let Player control that, or is it up to the posting body?

Good question, to which I don't have a good answer. But common sense can take care of a lot of the matchups. Jager, alone, would probably not be able to take Leviathen and Geryon; the best he could really manage is a stand-off.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Gerald, you didn't answer the initial questions.

Seems fair since you keep dodging mine.

[Hugin]

But I'll give it a shot

What is tough?

The ability to stand up in a fight and take it most of the time without getting killed and/or beaten.

Who is unbeatable?

Vague question. In what situation? Against who?

Which NPC's are Q:6+ as of 2015?

Another opinon question. It's opinion and nothing more. There isn't a list from WW so it's all conjecture as to who you think made the cut.

My opinion? Most of the Terat Pantheon, a bunch of Utopians, Elites and even some XWFers.

How do we rate PC's against NPC's? Do we let Player control that, or is it up to the posting body?

Neither of us are the ST so I'm taking it you mean Players controlling that. I can dig that, a general consensus would be cool.

[Fortune's Son]

I've been quiet of late but as you've asked a round robin series of thought provoking questions that I have some opinions on, I'll answer.

What is tough?

Taking punishment but not giving up. Staying the course. In extreme cases its taking the lumps but still trying to reach the goal set, even if its become apparent you're not likely to achieve it. Believing enough in the effort to continue the struggle even knowing its a losing proposition.

Who is unbeatable?

More to the point; what is unbeatable? Its a fairy tale created by amoral politicians, incompetent generals, and those that want to describe something without actually being able to conceptualize it. In other words it doesn't exist, which is both good and bad. As an example I believe Geryon and Leviathan are not "unbeatable" in an ultimate way, but then don't I believe Jager to be "unbeatable" either. Admittedly this from my own point of view as I know your's to be different.

This does not assume one individual can win in any given situation but we were speaking generally.

Which NPC's are Q:6+ as of 2015?

More than a couple, less than too many? A facetious answer I know, but its not a question that keeps me up at night.

How do we rate PC's against NPC's? Do we let Player control that, or is it up to the posting body?

I'm the guy that felt doing this was a mistake and said definitely that in my opinion any story that didn't make sense without canon characters was inherently a flawed story unless it was intended to be about the canon characters. This is not a criticism of your recent story, which I haven't read yet, rather I am reminding you of something so I need not use the three pages I used in that orignal post to explain the point. However that's a personal opinion, not necessarily shared by many of the folks around let along a majority.

As I understand the fiction social contract change, thanks to Kirby for additional explanations, I can write anything I want as can you. If we conflict by you killing Geryon when I have a use for him in my story, then we both still get to post our stories. The stories do not conflict as they do not inherently exist in the opnet unless a majority of us want them to. I'm fine with knowing I can write Geryon as unbeaten should I need to, nor does it bother me that you've written him as a weak combatant. He served your purpose and can be made to serve mine as well.

In the end, should I desire my story to be taken as "canon" I think I would let the forum know that's my intention before I post it, then post the story. If its a good enough story then maybe it'll be real for them. If its not then I'll try to figure out why it wasn't and do a better story next time.

[Jager]

Okay, let me try this again. I am looking for names and the reasoning behind those names.

What do you consider a tough soak that few people can break through? Who has that?

What do you consider a devastating attack that few people can soak? Who uses it?

What do you consider an impenetrable mental defense? Possessed by whom?

What do you consider an overwhelming mental assualt? Possessed by whom?

Who do you consider to have the greatest social manipulation abilities? At what level do they have it at?

Who are the most versitile novas? As in, those who have a great range of offensive, defensive, movement, and related powers?

Who possesses Q-6+ in 2015? Who is close? World Wide Phase I says that in 2009, 10 novas exist with a Q above 5. They are listed as Caestus Pax, Divis Mal, Gabriel Melchior, Jeremiah Scripture, Dr. Spencer Balmer, and Sophia Rousseau plus two or three others (pg. 153).

What other NPC's do you see as having broken into that club?

A while back, Dr. Troll and I talked about what was considered a reasonable amount of experience. He suggested about 2xp per week of activity. Certainly novas who maintained a unimaginative routine, or repressed their powers (such as Randal Portman) would get less, while true explorers and wonderkin would have a bit more, but about 100~125 xp a year was something we thought was acceptable.

What do the rest of you think?

[Singularity]

*sigh* I thought the regulation of experience topic was shot in the back of the head and tossed into a ditch a long time ago.

[Fortune's Son]

It might possibly be a more effective use of your time, definitely a more effective use of my time, if you would please just get to the point. While the slow revelation technique can be highly impressive in a story, it is less so here. The possibility you'll receive an answer from me that actually addresses the mystery issue you're circling around is very small if you never broach the actual issue.

What's on your mind?

[Madison 'Vali' West]

The point is that people get upset when a PC beats up on NPCs. To me, creating someone who is basically an NPC so that they can be beaten up just to show how tough the PC is is meaningless. To me, that voids the precept of having a canon setting.

Geryon is out there, doing things.

So is Splash.

Yet, they apparently can not be confronted and beaten.

If PC's exist in a canon setting, what are their limits going to be? What can't they do?

[Fortune's Son]

Truthfully I feel the same way when a canon character is used for that express purpose, but its not a matter of being upset. Geryon is out there, he's never been caught, unbelievably "no one" has ever stumbled across the idea that he's using dormancy as a tactic to evade capture, and of course he has a support network that's fairly daunting. What I personally want to see is an equitable exchange; the investment I have in my perceptions and beliefs regarding a canon character traded for something that is worthwhile to someone other than the player doing the story. For this reason I am satisfied with the new way of running fiction. The story goes up, I get to read it, perhaps ask a few questions for clarification, and then decide whether its a good trade and can support it being consensual reality. I am personally fairly lax in what I expect in trade in as much as I'm amenable to simple entertainment value in the story itself.

I don't know honestly know how far PC can go in a canon setting. I don't really know what the forums as a whole think on the subject either. I do know Chosen has made a fairly blanket statement about how PC are to drive the world and that some major changes are suppose to be announced concurrent with the next software change.

What's been said is very... Intriguing.

[Fortune's Son]

An addition: I don't put much stock in the experience point argument in general. If its been shot in the head as Singularity says, then it was a mercy killing. After all, surely Geryon hasn't been sitting on his behind drinking lagers in the pub while waiting for the PC to accrue sufficient power to challenge him for no reason other than the fact he's Geryon? That only happens in dungeons and dragons, and usually only when the opponent is a liche. After achieving sublime levels of power sufficient to have evil-gasms and subjugate the masses, the liche then sits around drinking Chablis killing time while waiting for the inevitable party of lawful good characters to come punch his clock terminally and steal his ill-gotten treasures.

Poor tactics on the part of the liche but that's a typical dungeons and dragons play experience.

[Vixen]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack:
Geryon is out there, he's never been caught, unbelievably "no one" has ever stumbled across the idea that he's using dormancy as a tactic to evade capture...

Mmmmm, you know, I've been wondering if that story of mine had been punted out of continuity or not.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Hugin]

Okay Jags, I appreciate you clarifying things a bit though I'm still curious as to what your eventual desire is for this line of questioning.

Answering these questions seems, well, a waste of time to be honest.

It's all a matter or opinion. I throw up some numbers and what? What does it mean other than what I'd define as formidable in a game I was running. In game I'm playing it it would depend on the ST in question. Here it's altogether something else. Especially since so much of what we have is undefined.

Who has been presented as tough?

Doc Troll, Avenger, Jager, Very Bad, Vile Bill, Totem, Tangent, Ashnod and Apep just to name a few.

But why? More than half of them haven't even been defined in any specific game mechanics way. I know in my mind that Vile Bill, while very "tough" in my mind, in a toe-to-toe combat with nearly any of the above would be massively fucked. Hell, Thomas has at times tried to present Endeavor as tough as laughable as that has seemed.

Much the same goes for your other questions. It all depends. You've shown Jager to be nigh-on unbeatable because he is, in your mind, one of the top echelon of novas on the planet. He apparently is supposed to rank above Geryon and Leviathan combined, and if memory serves I think he bitch slaps a number of top ranked Elites too at one point? So he's a mega-bad ass by your estimation. But I have no clue as to what his stats are, hell, even what most of his powers are. So, on this board I would define Jager as tough, but I couldn't tell you what that means. I assume he's got potent attacks, strong defenses both mental and physical but again, all that is based on nothing concrete.

I think it's a little unfair for you to start asking us to pull out specifics about 'tough' when you've been unwilling to do so yourself.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vixen:
Thanks for the confirmation.

Smart aleck.

It's been three years. So I forgot about one particular story in three years.

[The White Rat]

I was wondering about experience myself. Also, would someone please explain to me the context of "canon".

As far as toughness goes, it really might just depend on the nature of your opponent. Some people might find themselves overmatched by a starting novas who just happens to have an ability that takes advantage of a weakness. That same nova, however, might be able to kick some elite ass because their character design is suited for combat with that character type. Also, having someone else run the opposition makes things harder.

I'm new here, so I may be talking out my ass.

[Vixen]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack:

Quote:

Originally posted by Vixen:
Thanks for the confirmation.

Smart aleck.

It's been three years. So I forgot about one particular story in three years.

Don't worry about it. It was far from a memorable effort and I'm willing to Crisis it right outta there.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Originally posted by The White Rat:
I was wondering about experience myself. Also, would someone please explain to me the context of "canon".

As far as toughness goes, it really might just depend on the nature of your opponent. Some people might find themselves overmatched by a starting novas who just happens to have an ability that takes advantage of a weakness. That same nova, however, might be able to kick some elite ass because their character design is suited for combat with that character type. Also, having someone else run the opposition makes things harder.

I'm new here, so I may be talking out my ass.

Actually, I thought those were meaningful answers.

"Canon" comes from the fact that we're not actually a troupe with an ST to oversee the madness so doing something that changes the world (affects what the books describe) was a faux pas. Since the site passed the last detailed event from the book with the riot in Ibiza, there's a greater possibility of making major impacts on the world but compounded by the difficulty of pursuading the other players that what you want to do should be recognize and validated by their acceptance. The same factors come into play with experience. If you were to say you acquired a 200 experience in a decade no one would even blink. Were to claim a 1000 or more in a year the reaction would likely be different. In either case there is no ST so the deciding factor is what the other players you're interacting with can accept. That's partly based on what you're trying to assert but also based on how you convey it to them.

As an example; there was a time couldn't kill Totentanz because everyone's characters knew he was the number one elite in the world, therefore he had to be alive and generally undefeated. As a group, we're now past that point chronologically therefore your character could theoretically kill or defeat him. But it would have to be conveyed in such a way that the group as a whole (or at least a majority) would read the story (or explanation) and agree with it.

Sound confusing? It is but welcome to Nprime.

[Preston]

The end purpose of these questions is that a story could be written involving canon characers with the author's hope that it would be accepted as having actually have happened and not a season of Dallas.

Personally, unless I specifically go out of my way to write a non-canon story, I feel I have wasted my time and effort by creating something that is then rejected by the rest of the people here.

I enjoy reading stories, both canon and non-canon, here, but I prefer my own efforts to be canon if at all possible.

[The White Rat]

What about a section of fiction based on pure fantasy (non-canon) and another that is canon? These stories could actully revolve around a character's dreams and fantasies, in which anything is possible. Acceptance by the room would be unnecessary because everyone would know that it is pure fantasy.

Why would someone want to contribute fiction and receive no experience. Maybe they enjoy writing. It might further character developement. If a story is especially intriguing, then maybe the readers of the story could award creativity points.

Just a thought.

What do you think?

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Preston:
The end purpose of these questions is that a story could be written involving canon characers with the author's hope that it would be accepted as having actually have happened and not a season of Dallas.

Great, thank you for the clarification, I really appreciate it.

Now, considering what your goal is might I suggest another tack? Define the character you want to write with. As I said, with the example of Jager, while I understand he's tough, I have no clue as to how tough. I can see him holding his own but walking through a pair like Levi and Geryon without it seeming to be more than a walk in the park stretches credulity for me. Obviously it doesn't for you though, and you're the one who knows the character better than everyone. But, for me to find a story believable you either have to have presented the character in such a way so that I buy his buttkicking of L and G or you have to define him better using specifics. Now, you have presented Jager as formidable, but I don't think you've presented him as formidable as you'd like. Most of the writing you've done with him has been social, his fighting, his use of powers have been actually pretty limited. Look at the fight with Deathsquad, you didn't even write the portion where Jager took out DS, someone else did.

Me defining what I think of as tough, or Jack, or White Rat or anyone else doing so, doesn't help you out. All it does is set our bar, it has nothing to do with Jager, Preston or any of your other characters. Or anyone elses characters. What I think of as tough isn't going to have an impact on Jager. Heck, what if I defined Geryon (in my opinion) as someone with Q6, 6's across the board for physical megas, masteried armor with impenetrable and a host of other badassedness? Jager is what Jager is inside your head, it wouldn't change Jager. What would the value be?

[Jager]

Its not just for my characters. I would like an idea of what people think are benchmarks for their characters.

Singularity is a tough, seasoned elite. What does that mean? Tougher, or weaker than Geryon? Could he take Pursuer?

Jager is Jager inside my head, but I would like to place him in context of this board to. I don't want people to choke down on what I think any of my characters are. I want to find some sort of concensus between what I want and what other people see as plausible.

White Rat, there are no experience point awards here. You determine how your character advances.

[Hugin]

Okay, I didn't think this was only about your characters, I was just using that as an example.

I think my points still stand though. Tough is reletive. In order to get that sort of a consensus going we'd need to stat everything out. Not just NPCs of canon but our own NPCs and our PCs as well. If comparing reletive strengths is important between NPC and PC then it's just as important between the PCs whether or not we intend on having PvP action going on.

Now, in relation to some of your questions, specifically the one on Q6's. I believe that there would be more Q6 candidates among the Elite and Terat populations, slightly less so among the Utopians. Utopians tend to push their nova members into using their powers and excercising them but are very down on Taint, so if that becomes an issue they're kind of 'shut down'. Elites train and push their people quite a bit and seem to want to help Taint cases rather than suppress them. Terats have less problems with Taint, many of them push their powers as a matter of belief and/or faith and their access to Chyrsalis can shorten the road to Q6. So, in my minds eye Geryon and Levi both are Q6'ers, especially when you consider that Levi has Node Spark and seems to be walking that Monster path with a great deal of devotion.

[Wakinyan]

Hmmmmm stating everything out..

What a bold and innovative idea....

[Jager]

Not even stating everyone out ... after all, we would have to stat out and update a host of NPCs as well.

Prodigy, please remember the second toughest nova on the planet is a Utopian, and he hasn't succumbed to taint. For that matter, Balmer didn't lose it either. He had a difference in policy with the Project and left, but he didn't burn out. Of course, in WW does like to bring up Utopia burning out its novas, though.

Anybody else?

[Good Alice]

Px may or mya not be the second toughest nova on earth. We know little to nothing about Scpiture.

The book lists at least 3 other novas who were q 6 by 2009. The crazy guy form vagas, Plant guy and the female leader of the ABerrants. Note that by 2009 there are many novas who are on the upper limits of q5. Say splash, Epoch, Infante Lotus...

[Harold 'Mythic' Anderson]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
... please remember the second toughest nova on the planet is a Utopian, and he hasn't succumbed to taint...

Yes, because Pax's ego trip has nothing to do with his growing Taint, despite the fact that it was explicitly said that he was going on an bender for more power at any cost (IE-taking things tainted).

Please, at the very least Pax is at Taint 4.

[The White Rat]

Is not Divis Mal a Q-8 in 2008? The PG says that the single most powerful Nova in the world is a Q8. Is not Mal the most powerful, or is there someone higher.

Also in the PG:

Quote:

"Due to the existence of particularly powerful nova on earth during the Aberrant era,... Once that nova takes his leave of Earth, the eruption rate drops precipitously" (pg. 59)

It seems they are referring to Divis Mal. It would also seem that he would have Quantum Supremacy, which is a level 5 power.

The PG also hints that Caestus Pax is a Q7 in 2015. (pg.121)

[Jager]

Correct, WR. Pax goes from unerupted in 1998 to Q:6 in 2007.

Mal is definitely Q:8 very early in the game, if not in 1998 initially. Since he is the CANON STOOGE of WW MegaGaming, I don't like counting him. He is the Plot Device of this game. I consider Mal Unbeatable because of this.

Back to the others.

How do any of the PC's relate in power to these other NPC's? Can someone drive themselves as hard as Pax? Or Anteaus, or Geryon, or Leviathen? All of these people are novas who erupted on, or after N-Day.

Can PC's equal or exceed them?

Btw, the whole Nova Age is Mal's fault. All the big hints point to him recreating the experiment back in 1922 that created him, but he only got it half-right. When he leaves, nova eruption does drop precipitously and those are far more tainted (per Trinity Era rules).

[Good Alice]

Right now the only nova I may play on these boards in the near future with a Quantum of 6 is Dreamer. She is ungoddessly powerful. But she is from 1998 and by no means can she beat up a combat elite in a fist fight.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Troll is tough because of his theme and because he's somewhat stat'ed out. He's by no means unbeatable but combat with him is risky from a number of standpoints. In theory it would be believable for him to beat a couple of Teragen heavyweights (doing so without leveling a city would be harder).

If I had to write fiction about Troll vs. Pax, I'd have Pax win but Troll would be so destructive it would be a victory in name only.

Jager has his "man of mystery" theme going which makes it harder for him to be believeable at that level of "toughness". If we had a TT game going then that wouldn't matter (for example, I thought Pax was tougher than Mal when all we had was the core book).

,,

Quote:

Originally posted by Harold 'Mythic' Anderson:

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

... please remember the second toughest nova on the planet is a Utopian, and he hasn't succumbed to taint...

Yes, because Pax's ego trip has nothing to do with his growing Taint, despite the fact that it was explicitly said that he was going on an bender for more power at any cost (IE-taking things tainted).

Please, at the very least Pax is at Taint 4.

In Cannon Pax has Q7. According to one of the writers he also has Node 5. He is unlikely to have Taint Resist. That's 6+ Taint.

Pax is IMHO a nova who basically has succumbed to taint, but everyone else on T2M works around this... and I could make similar claims about Divis.

They are insane. They are functional because their insanities match their jobs, but they are crazy none the less. Pax is much closer to being disfunctional because he doesn't get to chose his aberrations. One more point of taint and if the ST is unkind he could get "Uncontrollable Power" on his Mastered Q-Bolt or something similar.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Not even stating everyone out ... after all, we would have to stat out and update a host of NPCs as well.

Prodigy, please remember the second toughest nova on the planet is a Utopian, and he hasn't succumbed to taint. For that matter, Balmer didn't lose it either. He had a difference in policy with the Project and left, but he didn't burn out. Of course, in WW does like to bring up Utopia burning out its novas, though.

Anybody else?

Pax hasn't 'succumbed' to taint? I'd say he very likely has enough for at least one or two minor aberrations. His ego and micro-management seem almost absurd and there is the suggestion that he has a glow or some sort of anima banner.

But, that aside, I did say that Utopia would be in the top three as possesors of Q6 novas. That's saying more than Muni-Defenders (face it, they're highly paid advertisiments for the most part), XWF fighters, Directive agents and Corporate employees.

Oh, and Balmer has leafy skin and hair. Kinda screams at least Taint 5 to me, even if we attribute his monkish behavior to simply being a little weird.

[Jager]

To clarify:

Getting aberrations is not the same to me as succumbing to taint. Gabriel Malchoir succumbed to taint, as in his abberations caused him to be a threat to the world.

Pax has taint abberations. I believe they are Hairless and Anima Banner, I believe. In one of the Utopia articles it talks about him starting to look like his action figures. Wether his raging ego is his personality, or taint-related, is a matter of discussion.

FYI, Totentanz, Mr. Uber-Elite, has one taint and that from his Q of 5, I believe.

[Hugin]

Okay Jags, you asked a bunch of questions, I've addressed some points regarding those questions and you've not really addressed them, which is fair. Your thread, do with it what you will. But I don't see anyone looking to provide you with the answers you seem to be looking for. So where does that leave us?

And I have no clue what the Totentaz comment pertains to. I just said that I thought Elites would be likelier than say, Rainbow Roddie, to be Q6'ers. Taint was merely an aside.

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
Okay Jags, you asked a bunch of questions, I've addressed some points regarding those questions and you've not really addressed them, which is fair.

What questions have you asked that you have not gone on to answer, or have been rhetorical? Please point them out to me.

[Vixen]

To get back on topic on the notion of 'unbeatability.'

How I try to portray nova fights is this: you never know, for sure, how they're going to turn out. There's a saying that no plan survives contact with the enemy, and that's for conventional warfare - that goes cubed for battles where the people on either side can warp space, alter momentum, slow down time and manipulate the nature of information. And that's if the powers on either side are a known quantity - what happens if the guy on the other side's got a mental blast with no visible effect that he likes to keeps quiet about?

It's why even organizations with a ton of novas keep going for more of them - because anyone could have the right combination of powers to tackle problem X or threat Y. A 20 nova point nova can take on an 80 nova point nova, if he's got exactly the right 20 nova points worth of powers.

So I think portraying the NPCs as non-infallible is the best way to go. I also think, however, that if your character IS clashing with someone noteworthy enough that everyone here knows their name, it ought to be one hell of a fight. I find that people more readily believe in PC X triumphing over NPC Y if you show that it wasn't a walk in the park. Show bruises and cuts and mashed lips. Just because you won doesn't mean you'll be walking in a straight line right afterwards. It's the reason why in fiction the protagonist always shows up and finds the doomsday bomb with about two minutes left on the timer - because we want to see some sweat.

And don't be afraid to lose either. 'Snakes in the Grass' is probably more memorable than 'Rattle in Seattle' ever was.

However, I'm not in the Q6 arena, and I rarely interact with the NPCs anyways, so perhaps this is a discussion I should bow out of and leave to those who do these things with some regularity.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:
Okay Jags, you asked a bunch of questions, I've addressed some points regarding those questions and you've not really addressed them, which is fair.

What questions have you asked that you have not gone on to answer, or have been rhetorical? Please point them out to me.

Points, not questions. You say one thing, I say another, we go back and forth and try to come to either an agreement or realize we have to agree to disagree. I don't know if you don't address a point (even if it's dismissing it) if you're acknowledging it or simply ignoring it.

I'm trying to read your posts and respond to what I'm seeing in as constructive a way as possible. I don't want to blow you off or provide what I would think be worthless or meaningless responses (like just tossing out names and/or numbers) rather I'm hoping we can have a productive dialogue. If that's to far afield of what you're looking for just lemme know and I'll bow out.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vixen:


However, I'm not in the Q6 arena, and I rarely interact with the NPCs anyways, so perhaps this is a discussion I should bow out of and leave to those who do these things with some regularity.

Absolutely not. You have an opinion, you present it well and you're a participant here. I can't imagine anything more being required.

[Fortune's Son]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vixen:
How I try to portray nova fights is this: you never know, for sure, how they're going to turn out.

A very salient point. I believe its in the directive book that an analyst is complaing to his superiors in regards to the task to identify which novas may pose a threat. His response is something to the effect that they are asking him to identify which needle in which haystack is going to be a danger. For those less interested in the joys of combat, the possibilities inherent in simplistic applications of power that could conceivably shift the balance of power world-wide are not difficult to brainstorm.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vixen:
However, I'm not in the Q6 arena, and I rarely interact with the NPCs anyways, so perhaps this is a discussion I should bow out of and leave to those who do these things with some regularity.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with that, Vixen. I've never volleyed a character that was a member of the Infinite Power Brigade either but still have opinions that are even sometimes useful to other.

Quote:

Originally posted by Preston:
The end purpose of these questions is that a story could be written involving canon characers with the author's hope that it would be accepted as having actually have happened and not a season of Dallas.

I personally think, given the nature of the task, the answers to these questions aren't what will provide the guidance you're seeking. You are in effect asking us what we find acceptable. One would assume this is done with the intention of providing a story that meets the majority concensus. Its unfortunate but even though you've chosen very strict and quantifiable criteria, the criteria of the people you're seeking to satisfy is not so strict or their definitions amenable to your purposes.

As stated I am fairly lax though my criteria may well be the most difficult to meet. Troll on the other hand is more mechanistically inclined, more so than I anyway, and might be satisfied with a narrative nod to the underlying mechanics involved in an encounter. If you're asking us to answer your questions so that you can provide something we'll automatically accept, that's a nice idea but doesn't it overlook that we may hold different views on what is realistic?

Troll might read a paragraph and tell you that its unrealistic because it ignores the fact that Geryon should have soaked the damage described as being inflicted. I'll read the same paragraph and might only ask you what in god's name Geryon was doing in Central Park in his beheamoth form on Christmas day. Even if Troll and I both agreed on what amount of soak is considered high, that isn't necessarily going to make any particular story automatically palatable to both of us.

Could you be looking for too much, especially in light of the recent change to how fiction is given opnet canon status? I can understand that being the goal, but as you're talking about what is the first story since the change in policy, is it a realistic goal to assume? I can't tell you how I would react to a story you haven't written yet. Once its written, or even if I knew somthing about it, I could say more. But until I do know more, all I can tell you is what I find positive or negative in general.

My apologies but, while your goal is highly specific, the information available is inadaquate to given you a definitive opinion on a story I know nothing about.