Nation Building [Pathfinder]

[Hyoseph]

"All life exists in discord. War and strife affect all known societies and all species spend their existences competing with others for limited resources. From the cries of an infant for the maternal teat to the wretched stench of the aged dying in their own filth, life is a series of squabbles and ugly messes.

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There is an alternative. There exists a state in which all conflict is resolved and all is cold and silent. There are no wants, no wars, no squabbles. You may call this state death if you wish, but that is a misnomer. Death is but the ending of life, and that is only a means to an end. That end is purity, the time when all is still and unchanging."

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Translation: I'm still down for the game.

[Myrra Longtail]

I'm going to hold off for a day or two to see how this shakes out before I decide to take that open door.

[Vivi OOC]

No. No, it isn't. I made a personal request, as a player in chat, that was (as I stated) unrelated to your participation in this game or lack thereof. If you would like me to post the contents of that conversation so that other people can determine whether or not I was clear, polite, civil, and concise, I will happily do so. In the meantime, I would humbly suggest that whatever you look for, you will find, whether that is drama, discord, camaraderie, or rainbows.

[Myrra Longtail]

I'll change my tone here.

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I will think about it. If people do not mind my returning. At least those in the game.

[AceWildcard]

I am in still in the game. Just trying to figure out the basic setting and world. Does it take place in an well known world or are we making things up as we go? I need some more details in order to work on my character. I am going to hope to make my character an ruler as well.

[Nyrath]

At a glance I'd say there's still enough people interested for me to go ahead so I'm not folding this that quickly.

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And while yes, I quite probably did over react I certainly won't accept the whole blame for that powder keg going off.

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Anyway; Ace, it's a homebrew with the details outside of the lands you'll be settling still kept fairly vague. If you've got ideas for a nation or culture your character comes from put them forward and hopefully they'll just slot in, otherwise we might need to nudge a few things here and there.

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Speaking of the lands you'll be settling. Have a map: I should mention that anything more than two-three hexes inland is sketchy to you at the moment (and I might in fact alter a few things here and there, even add a river or two more). But this should give you ideas for where to settle at least. Do some planning, that kind of stuff.

[SalmonMax]

Hm! Well, that northward-jutting peninsular on the northeast side is of interest to me. That river winding through the forest hex, or the hex north of that where what I assume is plains meets the forest...that'd be just about perfect for what I have in mind.

[Myrra Longtail]

The SW peninsula where the three rivers merge then go to the sea, there is a delta there and it makes a perfect spot for Krul's nation. Good amount of resources of all types to draw from.

[AceWildcard]

I have an basic idea on the character I am going to be using for the story. Yet I have not done much of his stats yet. Still am not sure what style to really go with. I have two idea on class to go with. Also as well as race.

[Caitlynn Serais]

Hmm, nice map.. I would like a color code though.. I'm certain of only a few of them.. I believe I have the mountains and the hills.. but upon closer inspection, some of the other colors confuse me..

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However, while the three rivers that meet over there seems good, I think I like the other spot where three rivers have joined and go into the ocean, south of that location and to the right, just north of the spiderweb of rivers a bit further south, I think it gives us more expansion potential, and I like all of the rivers down there.

[Hyoseph]

The main thing that I would be looking for is a mountain range.

Haven't decided whether I want to settle the town right in the middle of it and just go down all dwarf-style or use it as a directional border, but I do know that having access to a mine is important for making things

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~H

[Nyrath]

Alright, as things are starting to come together, and I've got stuff starting to come in from everyone but Ace, I figured I might as well post up a bit on how that influences the map.

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Salmon Max got a bit of luck in his rolls. He's got a Resource boost, a free Watchtower, and a (not shown here) ruined stable in his capital. So good for him, he opted for open rolls as well.

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Hyoseph got if anything luckier, two damned nat 20s, earning him some sweet resource boosts for his little southeastern kingdom.

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Me, I got a bit less luck than Max did, no ruined building, but still nice.

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And Krul's group, I only know generally where they'll start (unless something's changed majorly) so I haven't done their rolls. But still, it's a nice piece of land down there in the southwest.

Alright, updated with somewhat more correct info at least. Still don't know where they'll spend their three expansion hexes though.

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Oh, and houseruling/bodged together rulings in place without official errata (if there is one for this do kick it my way would you).

1: Fisheries; you may construct 1 per appropriate water feature (Coastline, river, marsh, open sea, lake etc.). So a coastal hex with a river would allow two fisheries to be built.

2: Farms & Woodlands; you may construct a farm in a wooded hex (provided the underlying terrain and other requirements are met) but it will cost an additional 2 BP and only reduce consumption by 1 as expanding the agriculture too much would mean removing the woods. You may in fact do this (cost & time to be decided) but that will render any Sawmills inoperable.

[AceWildcard]

Okay. What's up with b.p? I don't know that much or that far on that. Can someone intel me on that.

[Myrra Longtail]

Due to everything previous burning out most of my interest, and now the fact this game looks more like something I'm not looking for in a game, I am going to have to bow out. It's a serious downer as I have put some time and effort into my character with assistance, but I'm just not feeling it. I'm just thinking it's better to drop out now than one turn in and I've not done anything with this character. I don't think at the moment I have the mental stamina.

[Nyrath]

Okay. What's up with b.p? I don't know that much or that far on that. Can someone intel me on that.

BP is an abreviation of Build Points; the "currency" of Kingdom Building. It represents an abstraction of available Resources such as labour, foodstuffs, materials and simple cold hard cash. It is primarily generated by your kingdom's economy roll (if successful you recieve 1/3 the of the roll as BP), terrain improvements of a resource gathering nature and infusions of personal wealth from you and your ministers (if they're altruistic enough and times are hard). Not having any build points available doesn't mean you're broke; it simple means all your assets are bound up for the moment and no loose capital is at hand.

And Myrra, it is sad to see you go but if you think it is for the better I will not dispute it. You're welcome back if ever you feel like it.

[AceWildcard]

I'll look into it more. I have to basically tell you a bit more of what's going on with the character. Yet I need to at least give you also some basic info on the area as well as who's doing what. I have not gotten that all done. I hope to get it done within the next few days.

[AceWildcard]

Okay. Question what if you are trying to liberate an country. I mean I have an basic idea of what the country should be, but the problem is more with I have not done all the small details to it.

[Nyrath]

First off, sorry 'bout not replying yesterday. Had a thunderstorm roll in and I felt poorly enough to head to bed quite early. I'll get background info up either tonight or tomorrow.

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As for your question regarding liberating a country please clarify. Do you mean in game? As backstory? By military might or personal deeds? It would help a lot actually if we could discuss things like that in chat, or by PM. As it stands I lack enough a clear enough question to formulate a good answer too. I'll have go though.

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If you mean as backstory for this game; the continent has only been open to colonization for a bit less than two years so any countries (on the coast at least) are real young. And not particularly large either. You see the maps a bit higher up on this page? None of those little kingdoms is even four hundred square miles in area. Any country you liberate as part of a backstory for your own nation ruling in this game will, if on the same continent as everyone else and therefore actually part of the game, be a colony plain and simple.

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In game, that will be handled either as a military venture, an actual adventure, or more likely a mix of both. As the rules stand you do need to have no gaps between controlled areas (though water hexes may be claimed, and with luck and work you can have an underground connection) so if you "liberate" a foreign country in game you'll likely simply end up installing a new regime unless it actually borders you.

[SalmonMax]

I'm sorry if this was answered before, I honestly can't recall. Do the PCs know of each other? Or do our colonies have a 'fog of war'?

I seem to recall you mentioning we only had knowledge of a few hexes in from the sea, or from our starting hexes, but I'm not sure if that extends to a lack of knowledge that there are other growing nations semi-nearby, or an absolute blackout until exploration/contact is made.

-Edit: For the benefit of those not in chat, Nyrath answered this. We do know of each other, and have enough of an idea of where we are to get ships close enough to say hi. We also have more detailed knowledge of our closest neighbor's location; though still not terribly specific until we actually send people there to see for themselves.

[AceWildcard]

Okay here is the basic premise of my character. He was once of a noble house whom was overthrown during an invasion. He survives the invasion, but barely. He took on an alias and slowly builds his own mercenary company with a help of a few friends he gather during his wandering after the invasion in search of purpose. His organization is quite successful and is often an wild card in the campaigns he was in. This is due to the precise and tactical movements and action he did. His group is often very small but well train and well armed. Now he is at an cross roads on what to do in his life. He desires to go home and try to do what's right. Yet he still does not have the resources to do such a large and lengthy means to take back a whole country and half the continent from his foes. Yet the reports he is getting are also very grim as well as from the various small holdings the country has. He has the desire to do something, but what he has to do will have to be precise and major. For what he does next will determine the lives of many people.

[SalmonMax]

lol...that is weirdly close to my concept. Like...almost spot on.

[Fashtar]

Question: Did you roll all that out, or did you just make it up yourself?

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No offense, really, I'm just curious.

[Nyrath]

I would imagine it's not rolled from the generator in Ultimate Campaign. Which is a sometimes useful tool, mostly for inspiration.

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As for the background itself. It looks fairly good, though I would like to see a reason for why he's come across the ocean and is involved in founding a new settlement/kingdom/nation rather than trying to pursue his ambition back home.

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And I'll just sneak in an update on how things are looking for a start right now.

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Kingdom of Seran (Krul & co): Basically done, just gotta finish up a few minor details.

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House of Dulat (SalmonMax): I just gotta get his second NPC char done and sent and then they're good to go.

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Culessa (That'd be me): Gotta review some numbers and do a bit of recalculations. Last looked them over before Myrra pulled out, so need to cut an NPC down and such. Still, essentially good to go.

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Hyoseph: Still a bunch of stuff to finish up. Still, got the NPCs half done and I know where he's set up camp and such. Still need stats, names & what he's spent his four backlog turns doing and such of course.

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Ace: Still need a starting location, names, stats, some idea at least for NPCs and what you're doing with your four backlog turns. I'd prefer to see at least some of that in the next few days. As it stands you've got practically everything left since I haven't seen anything beyond that bit of background (which, as I said, is basically fine at least).

[Hyoseph]

How much BP did that initial exploration cost? A lot? A little? Not enough to be concerned with?

[Nyrath]

Each Hex claimed after the first one (i.e your capital) costs 1BP. So 3BP spent on expansion. Later on it's likely a good idea to hire explorers to, well, explore unclaimed hexes you seek to claim (you may or may not accompany them as you wish) which would cost 1d4 BP per month the expedition is expected to last (paid for in advance). Then it's a matter of dealing with any hostile creatures living in the hex (driving them away, capturing them, persuading them to join you or just plain killing them as applicable) before claiming the hex at the usual 1BP cost. It is possible to forgo spending BP on an expedition and simply going on your own, but that is significantly more time consuming and will in all likelihood occupy all your none-governing time for that turn.

[SalmonMax]

Nyrath, which of my NPCs do you have left? I can finish them up if you PM them to me.

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By my count only Gavien is left...my other leaders are statted in the House PM you have.

[Nyrath]

Gavien yeah, gotta finish up a few things and then get him into a digital format.

[Hyoseph]

Sorry about the period of relative silence, unstable job situation currently has all of my attention.

I'll get to the game when I can.

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Thanks for your patience

[AceWildcard]

Who still interested in this? I am.

[SalmonMax]

Pretty sure everyone still is. Last I heard anyway.

[Nyrath]

Blargh, terribly sorry about my unannounced, unplanned and somewhat longer than needed absence.

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Unless there is an outcry from the players, or something unexpected shoves itself in my face, this'll launch at the end of the month. Whatever is unfinished at that point with those still willing to play I'm willing to fudge until it gets sorted out.

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Above all I just want to get this underway and not have it be stillborn.

[SalmonMax]

I'm still in.

I think I'm all ready, but if you need anything from me just ask.

[Caitlynn Serais]

Still here, if your still on.

[Hyoseph]

I'm here, just super busy. I've had 3 different jobs in 3 months. Just now settling in on what I think is going to be a long term one.

[Fashtar]

Still in. I've just been waiting for word from Nyrath, who hasn't said anything to me about this in a while.

[Nyrath]

Blargh, while I have been feeling under the weather and been bothered by a headache which has been hindering my progress with the intro I did recall that there's something which you, the rulers at least, can get done on your end for turn one: The Upkeep, Edict & Income phases. (IC depictions will of course have to wait another day so I can get the actual IC thread up)

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Oh, and Hyoseph, until you do get time to sort things out in detail for your kingdom I'm going give you the following fudged numbers. Economy, Stability & Loyalty: Arrange +15, +20 & +30 as you wish here until futher notice. Consumption modifier of -1. Unrest of 0 (-1 in Buffer). And, oh, 16 BP left in your treasury. This probably a bit lower (except BP) than you'd have with detailed work, but it's hardly bad and it's easier to adjust upwards retroactively than downwards.

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As for the phases, as short-hand for those not checking the SRD or have the relevant book on hand:

Upkeep: 1- Make a stability check (DC 25 at the moment for all of you [20 + #hexes(4) +#districts in settlements (1)]), if you succeed you lower unrest by 1 (or if already 0 you gain 1 BP). Should you fail by 4 or less you gain 1 unrest, 5 or more and its 1d4 unrest. If you've got buffered unrest reduction that will eat up to half the unrest gained (rounded up) or the size of you buffer, whichever is less.

2-Pay consumption, most of you will have nothing to worry about here (no edicts active during round 1). Should you against expectations end up with a negative value in your treasury your irresponsible fiscal policy increases unrest by 2.

3- Fill vacant magic item slots, I don't think anyone actually has that in any of their settlements at this point so shouldn't matter.

4- Modify unrest. If you should so wish you may at this point have the Royal Enforcer attempt to reduce unrest (should you have any) at the risk of lowering loyalty.

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Edicts: 1- Assign Leadership, everyone has (in theory) filled their slots, but if you haven't now is the time.

2- Claim (and abandon) Hexes. At the moment you can claim no more than 1 hex per turn. For this round, assume that whatever hex you're interested in has been cleared and explored and is ready for claiming, which will cost you 1BP (and raise your Kingdom Check DC by 1) should you wish to do so.

4- Build Terrain Improvements: Up to two at this point and with the size of your kingdoms being what they are. You may also prepare a claimed hex for building a settlement. Plains require no special preparation time but each other terrain type will require between 1 month (hills & deserts) to 4 months (mountains & jungles) before such preparations are complete. This also does cost resources payable either in increments over the time required (if more than 1 month is required) or as a lump sum up front.

5- Create & Improve settlements: Also simple, 1 domicile-type building & 1 building of any sort (provided you can afford them). You can also now actually form that settlement you prepared for (well, on a plains at least within this timeframe). This would however not increase your building rate or anything like that while also increasing your Kingdom Check DC, so you probably wont.

6- Create Army Units: As it says. Keep in mind you currently have no standing army deployable beyond your settlements, and even that is essentially militia. Before too long you'll want something I'll wager. For now though you (the PCs) are pretty impressive and can so far deal with the unorganized threats random wandering monsters pose.

7- Issue Edicts: Simple really, but to much text involved for me to replicate here sorry. In short decide frequency of national Holidays (boosts Loyalty, increases consumption), degree of Promotion for you kingdom and its businesses (increases Stability & consumption) and set severity of taxation (Boosts Economy but lowers Loyalty).

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Income: 1- Make withdrawals: if you wish you can withdraw BP from you treasury for 2.000 gp apiece, and increase unrest at a 1-1 ratio as well as the people grumble when government and national funds and resources go to personal use.

2- Make deposits: on the flip side you can boost your treasury by infusing hard cash and valuable or even magical items; every 4.000 gp nets you 1 BP.(see also step 3 in the SRD for expensive items).

4- Collect your taxes: make an economy roll. If the result equals or exceeds your Kingdom Check DC (25 unless you've expanded earlier in the turn) you divide the result by 3 and collect that much BP. You also add in direct infusions from certain Terrain Improvements.

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Hopefully that'll tidy you over for the little while I need to get that IC thread finished.

[SalmonMax]

It is worth mentioning that the Kingdom rules are on the SRD as well, for those who do not have access to the book and wish a more detailed account of the options.

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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/kingdom-building

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And now!

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Stability

Got a ludicrously stable 52 on Stability thanks to my ruler bonus and decent base bonus and a good roll. +1 BP added to Treasury.

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No Consumption yet.

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No Magic Items to fill.

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No Unrest.

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Edicts

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Leadership already assigned.

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Claim Hex 6917, the forest coast just to the south, costing 1 BP.

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Edict levels:

- 1 holiday ("Founding Day" or something similar) per year for now, +1 loyalty, 1 consumotion

- Standard promotions, +2 stability, 2 consumption

- Light taxation, +1 economy, -1 loyalty

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Terrain Improvement:

- Sawmill on Hex 6917, giving +1 stability and +1 BP earned during income.

- Road on Hex 6917, costing 2BP.

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New buildings: Housing and a Smithy; spending 9 BP and 2 lots.

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Income

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No withdrawals or deposits to make.

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Tax Collection...a bit lackluster. Just 28 rolled, for a +9 BP there. Perhaps she feels that cracking down on taxes at this early juncture will negatively impact growth? Egad, she's Republican!

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Spent a total of 1 BP from my Treasury.

+4 Stability from improvements.

+2 economy from improvements.

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ROLLS

[salmonMax] 8:09 pm: Heya! I am here to chat with friends and roll dice. And I'm all out of friends.

[salmonMax] 8:12 pm: Stability first!
SalmonMax *rolls* 1d20: 17+35: 52
[salmonMax] 8:13 pm: hum, and then just Economy it looks like.
SalmonMax *rolls* 1d20: 6+22: 28
[salmonMax] 8:14 pm: So...9BP it looks like. Hehe, next time I'll put my ruler bonus on that.

[AceWildcard]

I am still in. Working on characters or my character still. I haven't had much chance to work on him as I want to.

[AceWildcard]

Okay need some help. I have a few questions on cohorts. How many can you have and what levels they can be?

[Nyrath]

I believe I covered that question earlier on. http://www.rpgpost.com/topic/17269-nation-building-pathfinder/page-3#entry306344