Trinity Continuum: What we know

[jameson (ST)]

What does everyone want and expect out of the new game line(s)?

In no particular order ...

• Balance the damn systems so the game line is internally consistent
• Fix taint, it's easily the best concept in Aberrant and was easily the one that was worst executed (yes, even chrysalis was better executed)
• Make sure Adventure gets some support
• Open up the psi aptitudes so that players can get creative with their powers.

[The Story Guide]

What does everyone want and expect out of the new game line(s)?

,,

1. Balance in the system so that you can play or mix-and-match characters from any "era" of the game without having to learn a new system or cludge something together to make the different kinds of PCs consistent with one another rules-wise. This was especially glaring in the area of backgrounds and gadgeteering rules for me.
2. While I agree with Jim that Taint is an interesting concept in the game, please for the love of anything, don't make my character progression an automatic slide into NPC-hood. Yes, Taint should be there and should inform decisions that you make with the character, but I'd prefer not to get auto-taint just from progressing the character (from Quantum Rating is my biggest beef here).
3. If you're going to have Chrysalis and/or Qi Meng, have them make sense and balance well not just to each other, but to not taking them as well.
4. Metaplot - it's like cake: some is awesome, none makes sad pandas, and too much crammed down your throat is all tears and puking.
5. If you're going to name an "era" after a group, give them canon support - as much as your antagonist groups, at least! Aberrant felt like it should have been name Utopia (for which group got the most support), 'We are Superhuman Wrestlers' for the random and staggering amounts of XWF stuff, or 'We're anti-social nerds so the Teragen are the most consistent well thought-out group in the Aberrant line'. The last one is long, but given what I've seen played, I still think it might have gotten the most votes. Just like metaplot, making everyone 'right' from their perspective can be interesting, but it's also nice for a game to have some sense of "but these guys over here are the most actual Good Guys of the game and our villains are really Villains. Mix it up if that's what your group goes for, but this is how it is in the canon setting."
6. Gadgeteering and powers accessible from gadgets: if these are going to be options, please make it clear how you obtain them ICly and what it costs in terms of xp. Just because I make a gadgeteer character doesn't mean I should get free stuff if I say my character (who has, say, hypersleep or high M-Sta and doesn't sleep much anymore) spends their nights tinkering in their workshop. Just like advancing inherent powers, I'm getting a mechanical advantage and that should cost me xp.
7. Suite Powers - For the love of Steve, nerf the hell out of this OP power option. A one die penalty on pools isn't steep enough when the flip side is that I get access to a dozen techniques from putting one dot in a level 3 power. Hell, depending on my stats and Q-Rating in the game, I might never need to put more than one in the power.
8. Strengths/Weaknesses and Extras - I love the idea of customizing powers. It's awesome. I think Extras cost too much, Weaknesses aren't defined enough, and most Strengths are OP. If you can make a system that allows you to futz with a power but is set up to self-balance (so you can't just dump extras on a power without also limiting it elsewhere), that would be phenomenal.
9. Mastery - Please, please, please, get the hell rid of this. It's OP in the most ridiculous of ways and even when you're wanting to play a "high powered" game, totally breaks the mechanics. Same with Increased Attribute body mod, taking Aberrations as Flaws, and most Level 4+ powers. A few of the Level 4 powers are really neat and fun if you want to play the "gods in the playground" kind of game (or a multiverse game), but everything beyond that is almost entirely ridiculous and make it impossible to run a game at that power level. You're just into cooperative writing (which is fun, but doesn't require a gaming book at that point) once you hit the APG levels of powers.
10. Please have consistent saves. If a power gives you die pool that can reach up to 10 regular and 5 mega dice, then the defense roll for it should have a similar pool. Willpower is not enough, Node + Quantum is not enough, and when the game only includes physical and mental defense powers (Sensory Shield and Psychic Shield), social Enhancements/Powers pwn the game. If you have comparable defense saves, the "shield" powers also become more of an option to show particular resistance for a character, instead of a virtual need to prevent getting mind-raped by Telepathy and Emotional Manipulation, or having your quantum signature bashed around like an electric guitar at a heavy metal concert (all the Q-Leeches and Q-Vamps).

That's all I got for now, but I'm an opinionated git, so I'll probably add more as they come to me!

[Bombshell]

^----- This! Pretty much every point I was thinking about for an updated system. But I'll add one more.

11. Make it more desirable to take dots in a specific power rather than Megas associated with the linked attribute. In many cases an extra dot in a power just gives you one more regular die to roll. Compare that to a mega die that provides two or three times as many successes and can be applied to multiple powers and skills and/or provide other benefits. A quick fix would be putting a cap on the number of mega dice that can be applied to a power roll equal to the rating in the power.

[Sprocket]

1. If you're going to have Chrysalis and/or Qi Meng, have them make sense and balance well not just to each other, but to not taking them as well.

Hmm. Guess I could be flattered that a piece of fan-work like Qi Meng gets mentioned in the same breath with canon material like the Chrysalis, but I can't take the credit for writing that concept up. Qi Meng was pretty much the brainchild of Dion "Reighnhell" Woods - I just found a good name for it & found some good ideas for the special maneuvers.

,,

That said, weren't the benefits & drawbacks associated with the Chrysalis or learning Qi Meng put forth plainly enough? I admit that Qi Meng was flawed in that it really should've been written up with Meditation as a base for the special maneuvers, but 20/20 hindsight & all that. (Krul deserves major kudos for fixing that glitch in the CoQF game, BTW.) Just color me morbidly curious.

,,

Re: Another fear-

From what the developers have posted so far, this talk of "ensuring that all the games are part of the same continuum" sounds worryingly like introducing yet another metaplot without openly calling it that. I hope I'm just reading between the lines incorrectly.

[Dave ST]

Suite Powers - For the love of Steve, nerf the hell out of this OP power option. A one die penalty on pools isn't steep enough when the flip side is that I get access to a dozen techniques from putting one dot in a level 3 power. Hell, depending on my stats and Q-Rating in the game, I might never need to put more than one in the power.

The down side was also the increased Quantum cost. 30QP burns fast at 4 quantum points per use. Obviously you can purchase more quantum points, but at the start, only getting 7 uses out of your suite power might be a handicap in certain combat situations.

,,

Strengths/Weaknesses and Extras - I love the idea of customizing powers. It's awesome. I think Extras cost too much, Weaknesses aren't defined enough, and most Strengths are OP. If you can make a system that allows you to futz with a power but is set up to self-balance (so you can't just dump extras on a power without also limiting it elsewhere), that would be phenomenal.

,,

As a house rule, I used the d20 approach and it worked wonderfully. We dropped the 1, 2, 3 points QP costs for powers and simply assigned each power a base cost. An Extra didn't increase the level of the power, it increased the QP cost to activate it and it's use was completely optional one purchased. So if you had claws you didn't always have to use Armor Piercing or Aggravated Damage, but if you did it increased the cost to activate the power and therefore the maintenance cost as well. Now, I know a lot of people hated the d20 version of Aberrant, and I agree it wasn't that great, but look past that and inspect some of the core mechanics and how easily they would improve a d10 game and it works. I ran a TT game for 2 years successfully using a ton of home brew rules and it ran seamlessly.

,,

It also encouraged characters to spend some XP to increase their quantum pools... something I've found a lot of players don't bother with.

,,

Please have consistent saves. If a power gives you die pool that can reach up to 10 regular and 5 mega dice, then the defense roll for it should have a similar pool. Willpower is not enough, Node + Quantum is not enough, and when the game only includes physical and mental defense powers (Sensory Shield and Psychic Shield), social Enhancements/Powers pwn the game. If you have comparable defense saves, the "shield" powers also become more of an option to show particular resistance for a character, instead of a virtual need to prevent getting mind-raped by Telepathy and Emotional Manipulation, or having your quantum signature bashed around like an electric guitar at a heavy metal concert (all the Q-Leeches and Q-Vamps).

,,

Screw Willpower. It has no place being a 'resistance' attribute. Why not use... and this is silly, I know... RESISTANCE! The skill was put in the game and then never once used to resist a single power. My home brew adopted the Exalted mechanic. We added the Integrity skill and used that as the skill that is used to resist mental attacks and Resistance is used to resist any physical attack. The system matches the power system Attribute + Mega Attribute + Power VS. Attribute + Mega Attribute + Resistance/Integrity. We ignore anything that asks us to resist with Willpower.

,,

There is a mental 'soak' derived from Wits, that being considered your Mental Stamina so powers that add directly to soak against mental attacks are applied to that attribute and Mega-Wits has a few Enhancements that duplicate some of the Mega-Stamina Enhancements, just with a mental twist.

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One last note...

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Fix Mega-Strength vs. Mega-Dexterity in combat. Wrestler novas are severely handicapped since they don't get to roll Mega-Strength when making a brawling attack... this means an average M-Dexer will rarely be struck in combat by a Hulk. I homebrewed a fix and it worked great for us.

[Sakurako Hino]

Re: Another fear-

From what the developers have posted so far, this talk of "ensuring that all the games are part of the same continuum" sounds worryingly like introducing yet another metaplot without openly calling it that. I hope I'm just reading between the lines incorrectly.

,,

That does stick a pin in my hope balloon. Just hoping the same as you, Sprocket.

[Ricochet]

this means an average M-Dexer will rarely be struck in combat by a Hulk.

To be fair that's kinda how it is in the comics. Juggy can't and shouldn't be able to hit Spidey.

Also, Resistance is for things like diseases and poisons. I agree that Willpower is ni good though...a throwback to Vampire and the Dominate discipline.

[Dave ST]

To be fair that's kinda how it is in the comics. Juggy can't and shouldn't be able to hit Spidey.

Also, Resistance is for things like diseases and poisons. I agree that Willpower is ni good though...a throwback to Vampire and the Dominate discipline.

It's for resisting physical impairments. Drugs, poison, pain, anything that hits you hard and fast that would make you grit your teeth and push on. Some people might agree, some people might not, that's irrelevant. The point is a simple one: We used Resistance for physical impairments and it worked to solve the problem. We added 'Integrity' mental impairments and it solved that problem too.

[Dawn OOC]

To be fair that's kinda how it is in the comics. Juggy can't and shouldn't be able to hit Spidey.

,,

I agree that's how it is in the comic. However, in a game, if someone feels they need to buy a certain stat in order to be even minorly effective at combat, something is wrong and needs adjustment.

[Sprocket]

GenCon update: This is proabaly old news to anyone who lurks at RPG.Net, but they've got a thread focusing in the new Trinity Continuum corebook & Aeon v2.0. http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?734129-GenCon-Trinity-Continuum-Tease

 

Not much info on Aberrant v2.0, but talk of adjusting the game mechanics for high-Quantum novas to better mesh with the other character types was mentioned. Thing is, one can read that as either "fixing broken game mechanics" or "nerfing the novas in favor of the other character types". I'd like to think that they're doing the former without doing the latter, but I'm feeling pessimistic about this.

[Jordan]

Hey guys, so I've been trolling around trying to find anything about Trinity Universe (Now apparently called Trinity Continuum) since I haven't heard anything in a long time.  To that end I stumbled across a Google+ document in which fans have gleaned and gathered as much speculative info from official sources that they could and I have to say there are some things that really give me hope.

 

First off; apparently it's using a new mechanics system and not just a variant of the old WW system (which frankly, I am so over).  What that system is I don't know but the document makes it sound like there is some sort of internal scaling to deal with the different power levels of the 3 settings.

 

I also like it sounds like there are taking the term "Continuum" to heart and putting in lots of options and variants to the meta-plot. Apparently the Meta-plot is still around in some form but it's far less in your face and can be overridden by the ST with ease. 

 

I could go on but I think it's be better to let you guys read the document for yourselves before trying to discuss

http://tinyurl.com/q39ckvl

 

 

[Matt]

Very cool. Thanks for finding and posting about it.

[Sailor OOC]

I just read the document. I'm... speechless.

It's a completely new game it feels like from the leak. That, and Scions in my Aberrant?

BRING IT ON! To be honest I am not seeing anything I don't like with this though... I'm HYPE.

 

 

 

[Sprocket]

Much thanks for finding this document, will be looking it over very thoroughly ASAP! I admit my fingers are crossed on the new mechanics system, though. Looking at the revised Attributes (among other things) in the new World of Darkness gamelines back when they first came out turned me off to them right quick. Here's hoping for the best, but... well, you know.

[Sprocket]

OK, looked it over, here are my thoughts. I approve of most of what's been posted, but the following worries me.

 

Nixing Mega-Attributes: As long as there's a quantum power version of these available for all Attributes (including Willpower) - and the remark about what sounds to be recordings/works of "Mega-Social" novas being censored in the 22nd Century seems to bear this out - I'm OK with it. Provided, of course, that they don't nix Appearance as an Attribute like they did in the nWoD. IMHO, that was a truly stupid, brain-dead move on White Wolf's part that I can only hope Onyx Path won't be repeating.

 

Maximum nova power levels: I've said it before & I'll say it again - there ALWAYS needs to be bigger fish in the pond than the PCs. If you've got Superman/Green Lantern-level characters in the game, Storytellers will be needing mechanics for Galactus-level opponents. Otherwise, most Aberrant chronicles are likely to devolve into the most powerful novas squabbling over who gets to rile over the sandbox that is Nova Age Earth. That latter outcome is a pretty overdone & stale cliche, if you ask me.

[Dawn OOC]

Provided, of course, that they don't nix Appearance as an Attribute like they did in the nWoD. IMHO, that was a truly stupid, brain-dead move on White Wolf's part that I can only hope Onyx Path won't be repeating.

 

Removing appearance is one of the better moves in NWoD, IMO. First, attractiveness is a matter of personal taste and what is a three to me is a two to another person, and five to yet another. It really isn't a measurable attribute because so many people have differing tastes on what is hot and what isn't. Second, I've seen too many people try to do stupid things on the basis of "I've got App 5, I'm too hot to say no to." NWoD handled it pretty well with the Striking Looks 2 and 4 merits. 

[Sprocket]

Removing appearance is one of the better moves in NWoD, IMO. First, attractiveness is a matter of personal taste and what is a three to me is a two to another person, and five to yet another. It really isn't a measurable attribute because so many people have differing tastes on what is hot and what isn't. Second, I've seen too many people try to do stupid things on the basis of "I've got App 5, I'm too hot to say no to." NWoD handled it pretty well with the Striking Looks 2 and 4 merits. 

 

I'll agree to disagree with you on the first point. AFA I've seen personal/cultural/ethnic preferences are more like different ice cream flavors than entirely different treats, to use a culinary metaphor. Likewise for the "ugliness" end of the spectrum. But we'll see how Onyx Path addresses this soon enough, methinks...

 

As for the second, full agreement on some players being stupid about using Appearance as you describe, though I wrote off such incidents that I witnessed as poor roleplaying by folks who needed to review the core book of the White Wolf game they were playing.

 

On point #3 (the Striking Looks Merits you mentioned), I can't say one way or the other, having never played any nWoD games.

 

All that said, if they do nix Appearance, I wonder how they'll reinterpret the "Mega-Beauty" of deities such as Balder & Aphrodite, or the "Mega-Ugliness" of Hel or Xipe Totec. If this system is supposed to be used for Scion v2.0 as well as the Trinity Continuum, a couple of Merits doesn't seem sufficient.

[Jordan]

From my understanding they are removing mega attributes as a mechanic, not as a concept, so even if there isn't an appearance attribute (an I agree with carver that there shouldn't be) there will most likely be a way to model super beauty and super hideousness.

[The Story Guide]

Honestly, they could ditch it easily enough as a stat (perhaps replace it with a better descriptor word for charismatic/alluring/gets by on their personal magnetism) and just use Enhancements instead of megas to represent all the different ways Quantum can enhance those sorts of social abilities/qualities.

[Sprocket]

Re: post #58-

Yeah, that was implied in the document in that bit about recordings of "mega-social" novas being censored. Not really any big deal as long as the effects of the old Mega-Atts can be modeled.

 

Re: post #59-

That sounds a lot like a suite of techniques for quantum powers such as Elemental Anima. Given that they're ditching the old Mega-Att mechanic, you might be on to something there.

[Raphael]

What would I like to see?

 

I always thought one of the defining elements of A! was the concept of Lost Worlds and the civilizations that came with it. Whether it was exploring the Celestial City for an artifact that might have been the basis for the legends of the holy grail while fighting off warriors of the Jade Emperor, getting into a brawl because the bartender wouldn't serve the gorilla accompanying us to retrieve a map to an ancient Atlantean outpost or racing the clock to stop a madman from activating a cache of Martian war 'pods I always had a fondness for the Lost Worlds and the things that came from them.

 

*cough* Enkidu *cough*

 

In the original A! the Lost Worlds were very much a throw away concept and (apparently) the result of the Hammersmith explosion creating bubbles of reordered reality that eventually (assumedly) popped. These places and times could also have been the end points of Swiss cheese tunnels carved through noetic space into fringe areas of alternate mini-universes, portals across space and time to worlds that had been / would some day be colonized by the genetically tailored relatives of man or maybe just Planks Spheres that took form and substance from the thoughts of those entering. Or something completely different that I haven't thought of.

 

At any rate I'd like to see those wondrous places and their inhabitants again. I'd like to know what they really are, what happened to them over time and I personally also think it would be very cool if there was some tiny influence from these places in Aberrant and Trinity. Nothing show stopping. But understand I live for the moment when my team of Psions receive their AEON briefing on the Enkidu Protocols so named for the mysterious Dr. Enkidu that crafted the document and of whom there are no pictures. Or recovering plans on aged parchment that detail the construction of quantum stabilizer devices that will tweak local physics just enough to prevent aberrants from opening portals into major metropolitan areas.

 

And if someday my Psion battles his way through the warriors of a strange city on an alien world to recover a relic from an aberrant proclaiming himself to be the Jade Emperor, a relic that holds nano-encoded information to create a treatment for the taint mutated disease ravaging the population of Earth, well that's okay too.

 

 

Raphael