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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:39 PM

HarnMaster

I want to quote something VileBill wrote a while back in a response to Aberrant: The New Flesh.

“So unless I liked it I can't say anything? If someone wants to write something and put it out there, regardless of the amount of work that went into it, they're opening themselves open to feedback. Both negative and positive.”

I read through a lot of material and watch a lot of movies, all (most) lovingly crafted works that some effort went in to. And some of them are total dreck. There are the elite few that are so bad I can find nothing good to say about them, material I am not even sure the producer(s) likes or supports. They fail not only on technical level but seem void of ideas or so misdirected as to be insulting to the audience, without artistic merit. So I write purely negative material about them.

Some things are amazing, with few or no flaws, that advance an art or understanding to new levels or do the commonplace so well one sees it in a whole new light. I write glowing reviews of them. Sometimes though, you have something that is well done, but you may not understand the point or it just doesn't do anything for you. Like balancing a spoon on one's nose. Or competitive eating.

Which brings me to HarnMaster.
[end_news_blurb]

HarnMaster Fantasy Roleplaying
    
HarnMaster 3rd edition Fantasy Roleplaying system is not a new system. It is copyright is 2003. It is new to me though as I picked it up as part of a bundle from DriveThruRPG. HarnMaster is an attempt to introduce realism into fantasy role-playing, and it does so in part by having a highly detailed character generation system, with a lot of optional details. These details take class structure, clan structure and the reality of a medieval existence strongly into consideration.

It also has a detailed combat system with called strike zones, strike location within zones and no hit points, but rather a loss of abilities until one is unconscious or dead. It has armor and weapon damage, friendly fire and mounted combat rules that take into account the breed of horse you ride. All of these seem reasonably realistic. But who wants to be taken out accidentally by their drunken archer friend before swinging the first blow?

I am all for detailed characters, but I am not sure of how much reality I want in my fantasy. And that is the rub with HarnMaster. It is fantasy but it is not epic fantasy or high fantasy. It is concerned so much with being realistic that its fantasy elements seem sorely neglected. Which is fine if that's the kind of game one wants to play. But is not for me.


Where Did All The Paladins Go?

There are no classes as such in HarnMaster, rather there are occupations, everything from tentmaker to minor royalty, and skill sets based upon the occupations, as well as other skills to choose from. Family and relationship to the clanhead are important as well as contacts, both friendly and not. Training times for one's profession play into multiple aging effects experienced later on in the game.

The character generation system is extensive, detailed, flexible and yet it felt confining. Where in another system I can say I am the daughter of a ratcatcher then spin a personal history of how it led to being a powerful sorcerer, in HarnMaster the character felt stuck in the daughter of a ratcatcher phase. As to the reality of the characters, ultimately rising above one's station was not a common occurrence. Sure a cook shot Richard the Lionhearted, but history does not suggest he went on to become a general. Probably back to making gruel. Stressing the reality of the characters is a double-edged blade, which could break off in one's chainmail. If there be dragons, reality has bowed its head.


HarnMaster as a Game

HarnMaster is a system where I do not understand the point. There is little magic, a low frequency of mystical beasts, combat can be decided by a weapon breaking (based upon a die roll, not as part of the story) and dice seem to rule. This is not a criticism of the structure of the rules, the writing, the technical merits of the system or the ideas expressed. This is a purely subjective reaction based upon what I want out of a game.

There are a series of reviews on RPG.net which delve into the game in a lot more detail and they arrive at a very positive conclusion: “Realistic without sacrificing playability, HarnMaster is a mature, superbly crafted, role-playing game offering a great deal of versatility for the discriminating gamer. Highly recommended.”

The game mechanics allow for a range of settings, from Viking to feudal Japan, possible even steam punk or modern day realms, with extensive modification of skills. I do not in any way want to disparage the work that went into creating this game, but having only read through the game, it just does not see like something I would enjoy. It might be, in the hands of an experienced game master, that I would see it in a whole new light.


Self-Lovecraft

I am not familiar with enough games to know which other ones have seduction and sex as a skill but any game that gives this description, “The ability to charm, seduce, and give erotic pleasure. Lovecraft is opened when a character first attempts to use it. It cannot normally be improved by solitary practice, although there may be books or teachers available. The skill is used to assess the success of a seduction or sexual encounter,” with a nod to ...er, self-lovecraft, certainly has something going for it.

#2 Damon

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 02:54 PM

Sounds an awful lot like Rolemaster...just sayin'.

With system-heavy systems such as this seems to be, it always seems to me that the contributions of the GM become vitally important.  If you have a lackluster GM, the game will blow chunks, but...if you have a good GM, it wouldn't matter the system, you could be playing a Strawberry Shortcake setting of Gamma World and it would still rock.

#3 Chosen

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:04 PM

I want to see who volunteers to run & play a Strawberry Shortcake setting of Gamma World. wink

#4 Mr Fox

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 03:40 PM

I played in a system once, designed by our game master at the time, which was very similar to what is described above.  It was designed to be very realistic.  I played a Scout, and the archery was the best (in terms of realism) that I've ever seen.  One arrow could kill instantly if it hit the right location.  I enjoyed that aspect of it quite a bit.

But I have to say that you guys are right on the money, that GM could make a world come alive and the system was unimportant.  That same system in the hands of another GM would very much have blown chuncks.

Personally I like realism in a game, but only to a point.  I guess what I'm trying to say here is that when I play a game, I'm doing it to escape reality to some degree and I want magic to be magical not mundane.  That was the same problem I had with 4th edition, to me it seemed to take the magic out of magic.  They tried so hard to create a balanced system, that I felt that they lost something important that I enjoyed from previous versions.

#5 platonicideal

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 08:10 PM

I, too, would like to see the Strawberry Shortcake Gamma World mod. Perhaps with My Little Mutated Ponies as steeds.

#6 jameson (ST)

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 08:17 PM


Forty six and two are just ahead of me. - Tool
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Author: WoT Cycle Re-read Blog

Player: Ryan Jackson - Travis Kincaid - FBI Special Agent Gary Samson

#7 Einherjar

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 09:56 PM

Wow.  That pic of Rainbow Brite makes me want to practice lovecraft.  Or even self-lovecraft.

Seriously, we need the lovecraft skill for Abby.  grin

"The subtle tongue, the sophist guile...


They fail when the broadswords sing;


Rush in and die, dogs -


I was a man before I was king."



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#8 Dave ST

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 03:50 AM

I watched the Skyrim trailer from E3 again... I maxed my self-lovecraft skill in a matter of minutes.

Damn, that Rainbow Brite is kinda hot though...

S'cuse me a sec folks.    whistle

I'm so sick and tired of;

The taste of tears.

The sting of pain.

The smell of fear.

The sounds of crying.

As you're standing at the edge of your life;

What do you remember?

Was it all you wanted?


#9 Einherjar

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 08:56 AM

That'd be a good look for Contessa.  

*dies laughing*

"The subtle tongue, the sophist guile...


They fail when the broadswords sing;


Rush in and die, dogs -


I was a man before I was king."



Quantum Fire: App 6/1 (Imposing); Manipulation 5 (Authoritative); Charisma 7/7 (Magnetic)

Natural Leader Merit
Description: A veritable Norse god; tall, powerfully-built, blond and blue eyed.


#10 VileBill

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:05 PM

Hot?

It looks like the little furry monster is fisting her.

#11 Damon

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: VileBill
Hot?

It looks like the little furry monster is fisting her.


Hmm...that makes one wonder what really is all that colored speckle is on his face.

#12 RushingMountain

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 04:28 PM

I'll start with the me toos:  Yes, the GM makes the game good, or makes the game bad. Yes, I want to play Strawberry Shortcake in Gamma World.  Yes, that is one hot pic of Rainbow Brite.

Now, Harn.  I've played Harn.  If you want epic escapes from this gritty reality, play Cyberpunk 2000 instead.  In Harn, changing your character's station is [em]hard[/em].  Keeping your character alive in combat is [em]hard[/em].  Playing this game with people who play in the style of D&D is essentially a waste of everyone's time.  It just won't go well.

Now, if you're looking for an RPG that is about playing a character in a fairly "realistic" (notice the quotes, folks) setting, Harn is somewhere to the right of Rolemaster.  It doesn't mean it can't be fun, but you won't be playing the plucky ratcatcher's daughter turning into a powerful spellcaster, at least not unless you really think through what you are doing and play a very [em]very[/em] determined [em]and[/em] lucky ratcatcher's daughter.

Having said that, I must have had a good GM.  The system is a lot of fun.  For me, at the time, I think it was because I was sick of gratuitous combat sessions of D&D.  Combat in Harn is short, nasty, and brutish.  Generally, once someone gets hurt, they're done for, unless they have allies to cover them.  It discouraged "chop first, ask questions later" style play, because characters who acted like that didn't last very long.

It's not for everybody, but it can be quite good, as long as you know what you're getting into.
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