opnet [OpNet] What are or is the thing(s) the teragen stand for?

[Dreamer]

I have heard many of things,and I do not know what is right and what is wrong. So I am here asking, this.

Is it that novas should seek, the inner truth of their being,and live by the rules that they set themselves? Or is it something else?

[Sakurako Hino]

Is it that novas should seek, the inner truth of their being,and live by the rules that they set themselves?

Yes. Definately YES. In order to discover who you are and what you will become, you must explore yourself. Discover on your own what you are capable of doing.

Thing is, going this way, you must let your concience guide your actions. You'll find that following what you feel is right... isn't hindering at all. As long as it doesn't run over anyone else.

Or is it something else?

That part of your question... you need to answer yourself. I hate to sound cryptic, but that is all I can say. I'm still discovering my path. But, I am learning, and growing in the process. And I love what I see.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Speaking from the other side, that's the good news. The bad news is the Teragen's detractors are also largely correct.

Terats appear to be more effected by taint, and there are real ethical "issues".

[Xeno]

Surely one could borrow the agreeable elements of Terat philosophy without undue affiliation with the undesirable elements.

It is not good for good ideas to be invalidated by poor implementation/PR.

(Disclaimer: Analysis of Terat philosophy is pending. The above is not an endorsement.)

[Sakurako Hino]

Thing is, Xeno, There is a difference between Teras, and the Teragen.

Teras is a philosophy, the Teragen interperate it with their own view of it.

If you REALLY want the skinny, find an independent Terat. They won't color Teras with some prejudicial view brought with the associates they keep.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

It's sort of like saying that in theory, Communism was a good idea, the problem was in the implimentation.

I think the problems run deeper than that.

The idea is seductive, but when Communism was around, you could find individuals who worked for Communism and for whom Communism worked.

But the system as a whole didn't and couldn't work.

...

And this is aside from the other problem. There seem to be a awful lot of Terats running around with significant aberrations. At first I wondered if the Teras was mostly attractive to novas with those types of problems. Now I'm thinking it's the other way around. That there actually is a cause and effect relationship.

[Dreamer]

It could be argued that no nation has ever been Communist in anything but name.That it's a economic system and not government. But that is neither here or there.

[Xeno]

Communism would work well for theoretical beings that would work well with communism. Humans/Novas, it seems, are not that.

But universal healthcare of some sort might still be nice.

Similarly, self-reflection and pursuit of potential is good (it is strongly hoped), and teragen must have some insight into the matter. But this ideal can stand on its own, can it not?

It might be unfortunate if, for example, common belief came to hold that one who sought to optimize and embrace personal quantum potential implicitly held no regard for standing modes of order maintenance.

[Preston]

Not a single terat has responded to this topic? Odd.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Not really. Just like the 'Topes have gotten sick of having their beliefs shit on so have I. As for Ash, or 'Pep or Prodigy, well, them I dunno about.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Preston:
Not a single terat has responded to this topic? Odd.

It is far more interesting at this point to be told what the Teragen stands for by people not in the organization. As Mr. Chillmeister has said, nominally when one of us answers we are told how wrong we are by said novas not in the Teragen.

[Xeno]

First hand data on the mater is still sincerely sought from any who care to impart it, in this venue or another.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Xeno:Similarly, self-reflection and pursuit of potential is good (it is strongly hoped), and teragen must have some insight into the matter. But this ideal can stand on its own, can it not?

I suspect the key words there are "good" and "potential".

We all have the potential for good.
We all have the potential for evil.

If you don't care which way you go (and I think the Tergen doesn't), then down is a lot easier than up.

[Simon Whitechapel]

Isn't that rather limited thinking Mr. Smith? I mean really, to most of us "Down" is just as easy as "Up," even from an ethical stand point, isn't it?

[Sakurako Hino]

It easier to go down, because down is far more tempting.

[Ashnod]

In what context are you defining "down" and "up?" By what measuring stick is "good" and "evil" defined?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ashnod:In what context are you defining "down" and "up?" By what measuring stick is "good" and "evil" defined?

Exactly.

Quote:

Simon 'Kid Quantum' Whitechapel: Isn't that rather limited thinking Mr. Smith? I mean really, to most of us "Down" is just as easy as "Up," even from an ethical stand point, isn't it?

Unfortunately, that depends on the social structure. During World War 2, the guards at the death camps were, for the most, part ordinary people, who did horrible things, and after the war went back to being perfectly ordinary people. This type of experience has been born out other times.

Take two groups of actors, make one set the prisoners, the other set the guards, give the “guards” unlimited authority over the “prisoners” and tell them that they are on their own for setting policy and “ethical treatment”. Within a few weeks the guards are torturing the prisoners. If the guards are male and the prisoners female then there will be sexual issues/problems. Granted, not everyone turns into a sadist and starts abusing people, but most do. Real prison guards get special training to prevent this sort of thing. Real prisons (hopefully) have protocols set up because of this issue.

As near as I can tell, the Teragen has set up something similar with it’s “there is no ethics but what you set and our people will shield you from any consequences”.

[billy Horrorshow]

:semantic dance, semantic dance:

I love you guys only because you keep it so god-damn formal.

,,

Quote:

Originally posted by Preston:

Not a single terat has responded to this topic? Odd.

From the way she was posting about it, I thought Endeavor was the resident Terat speaking out. Of course this struck me as...odd.

[Tarot]

Never underestimate the power of the...

[size:7]Pink!

There can be only one. Usually that's slightly more than more than enough on most days.

[Dreamer]

That is right Mister Smith. That is one way to look on them. But I was asking them, and I still want to know how or why they think other people should respect what they are preaching. They do not seem to respect what others are preaching.

They seem to say, we will go out of our way to let you do whatever you want,as long as you signed the dotted line and are a card carrying remember.

I mean,even if you think of humans as chimps. Is it some how less noble to become a veterinarian, than it is to kill your own people?

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by billy Horrorshow:
:semantic dance, semantic dance:

I love you guys only because you keep it so god-damn formal.

Quote:

Originally posted by Preston:
Not a single terat has responded to this topic? Odd.

From the way she was posting about it, I thought Endeavor was the resident Terat speaking out. Of course this struck me as...odd.

Billy, my understanding of Teras I feel still fits with my view of the world. To explain how would take several volumes of material. Material I think only a few would be interested in. Not the general population.

Simply put, there are very few Novas that are Terats that I call friend. The rest are independent thinkers, yes, but not Terat.

Am I one? No. I cannot claim to be a Terat. One does not claim to be one. You either are, or not. It's not a club, or a lifestyle.

Of course, my spin on the issue may turn some heads, but my interpretation of Teras is in my opinion, sound. I feel that responsibility to yourself and to Novakind is part and parcel with Teras. As is minding yourself when dealing with Humans. One must try to write out as much as possible the Human quotient of a Nova's dealings with Humans. Such interactions create more trouble than it's worth. Just do your job, get it done, and get the hell out of there before anyone without a node starts realising they had somone with quite alot of power behind them doing their thing next to them.

I haven't taken that bit of wisdom to heart unfortunately, hence the massive fanclub I got, but at the very least, my occasional news letters attempt to enlighten those that follow my every move.

Perhaps they wish to learn from me, not ogle at my frame while I enjoy a swim in the summertime. Then again... it may be both.

And Tarot, Pink is only a color. Although it is asthetically pleasing to many a species senses. It represents Spring, Hope, Love, Peace, and Life itself. Perfect for a creator and builder like me, is it not?

What, you'd rather me walk around in all black and look all menacing and powerful? I could do that, but it'd be against my character. Fear is a block against understanding. I present myself in a way that breaks all walls.

[billy Horrorshow]

Thanks for clearing up the "Pink" thing. I thought when Deathsquid called you "Little Pink" it was a vaginal stab or something. Thanks for clearing that right up.

I also dug the very long "yes" to the earlier question.

[Sakurako Hino]

It's just that saying yes would not explain why.

Why do people fear Teras? After all, when you look at me, am I threatening? Am I any different than when I made my mistakes and made foolish assumptions here on N!Prime? My feelings are as this. I am not scared to say I am starting on this road. As long as someone can show me the first steps. Thing is, there are very few teachers that fit my view of things. Perhaps even none.

But, I believe. I believe in my potential. I believe in my future. And I can believe I can do it without sacrificing my concience.

[Walker]

You can theorize all you want.

Some things need to be experienced directly to be understood.

Even then one's assumptions about whatever the hell it is one has just exprerienced are largely one's own.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Sakurako Endeavor Hino: Why do people fear Teras? …But, I believe. I believe in my potential. I believe in my future. And I can believe I can do it without sacrificing my conscience.

I can’t.

As baselines, we are taught to believe that fulfilling our potential is a good thing. Money, education, accomplishments, children, etc. I don’t think that’s what Teras is about.

Endeavor, this is my quantum potential. Opnet Link to Troll\'s misdeeds.

My understanding of Teras is I’m supposed to embrace it. That it is my baseline upbringing that makes me shy away from it. Maybe. But the fact remains, I don’t want to embrace my potential.

So, could you fulfill your potential without sacrificing your conscience? Yes, you probably could. I think you’d do well as a prison guard as well.

I don’t have a problem with you fulfilling your potential. The real question is, the question I think Teras fails on, how do you feel about me fulfilling mine?

[Tarot]

I don't particularly care which religions any of you choose to embrace. Not that it shouldn't be a vital concern to you, I'm just not fascinated by your particular choices.

With that out of the way; what the hell are you talking about Troll? What does a bully fit have to do with fulfilling your potential. Its not as if rage is a natural state.

Color is what you make of it, Sakurako. I could tell you a dozen stories about the meanings of different colors, how what they represented changed through the ages and why. So yeah, black might be a suitable color choice depending on the place and mood. You do attend formal functions, right? Embassy parties, formal balls, State dinners and whatnot?

You looking menacing? You looking menacing? Just not quite getting the image...

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Tarot:Its not as if rage is a natural state.

It is for me. Worse, it's pretty much the default state when I'm green.

[Juri 'Salamander' McClendon]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:

Quote:

Tarot:Its not as if rage is a natural state.

It is for me. Worse, it's pretty much the default state when I'm green.

No wonder you're such a tight ass. You've got that whole "I'm secretly a monster and must do everything to keep in check" guilt trip mojo thing going.

Sucks to be you. Stop spoiling life for the rest of us, you fucktard.

[Sakurako Hino]

David, I believe that there is no thing that restricts my personal opinion. Thing is, you are a friend. What I think is harder for me to express with you.

I can say though, I am scared.

[Xeno]

The often-encountered, implicit synonymity of 'potential' and 'destructive capacity' is considered highly unfortunate.

It is strongly hoped that it is inaccurate.

[Sakurako Hino]

It depends on who is making the analysis, Xeno.

To me it is not "potential". It's "threat".

Potential is the unused latent creativity and skill a person has that is yet to be tapped.

Threat is the directly applied entropic force a person can exert on a target. Through brute or subtle means.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Worse, it's pretty much the default state when I'm green.

Why?

No, really, I want to know why it is that you go road rage on the world the moment you tap a little juice. Totem admits to having nearly zero impulse control everyday of his life but managed to hang out in Tokyo for a week without killing anyone. If you're tripping Mite rage every chance you get than maybe you should be looking at what it is that you're raging about.

Just me feeling philosophic tonight.

[Sakurako Hino]

There may be something far more dangerous than a "seed" of anger. It could be the nature of his ability. He may be... well... stuck in a permanent rage mode.

[Tarot]

Anger is to rage as a glass of water is to the Pacific Ocean. That's why I'm having a problem with this. There still has to be a reason even if it goes all the way back to eruption. There has to be a reason he wanted to be a mitoid.

Quick tempered and even violent is one thing but always and continually raging?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Sakurako Endeavor Hino:Potential is the unused latent creativity and skill a person has that is yet to be tapped.

Threat is the directly applied entropic force a person can exert on a target. Through brute or subtle means.

True for baselines, but we are talking about Quantum potential. My quantum gifts have nothing to do with art etc. By nova standards, my quantum gifts make me a second or third rate doctor/researcher… or a first rate engine of destruction.

My natural path is very obvious and clearly defined. I choose not to take it.

Quote:

Tarot: Anger is to rage as a glass of water is to the Pacific Ocean. That's why I'm having a problem with this. There still has to be a reason even if it goes all the way back to eruption. There has to be a reason he wanted to be a mitoid.
Quick tempered and even violent is one thing but always and continually raging?

During eruption I chose to identify with a comic character who has problems. Mostly the choice was a good one, it cleaned up my lungs, gave me several very nice skill sets, and the nova physic and metabolism are good. Even being able to turn green is mostly a good thing.

But when green, my natural response to most situations is violence and anger. For someone with elevated intelligence, that’s unfortunate, but controllable. Where it really gets dangerous is when you throw clones into the mix. Clones are really useful, but every clone drastically diminishes my intelligence, and thus my judgment. Rage is uncontrollable anger without judgment. Most people get fits of rage when their anger grows beyond their judgment. But that equation also works by leaving the anger constant but lowering judgment.

I go green, create a few clones, lose enough judgment that I create more, and boom. We level the city, or leave a big mess for T2M to stop.

We have been talking about potential. Here is another, I fit the profile for novas who have multiple personality disorder. My two forms already think very differently… enough so that if I ever start racking up aberrations, it isn’t tough to see which way I’ll go.

But that’s me. I’ve made my decisions, I’ll live with them. We were talking about the Teras.

So, how many people like me do you think are out there, and how many are following Teras? Still think Teras is a “good” or "neutral" thing?

[Tarot]

Troll, when you erupted you wanted to be a mitoid. You wanted to be an enraged, out of control, freak of nature too strong to be controlled and now thanks to your node that's just what you are. You screwed up pretty badly but since we all make mistakes now and again I can understand it. Did in one single instance of really bad judgment your potential is now and forever limited to being an enraged, out of control, freak of nature.

Right.

[kestrel404]

So far, I've avoided this topic on the grounds that I do not understand Teras in the slightest. I have heard rumors and gossip thus far as to what it involves (evolution?) and what it precludes (humanity?).

What I have observed thus far is as follows:

Those who claim to follow Teras without being a Terat do not change much. Once you begin claiming to be a Terat, you either become a zealot, a monster, or both. So this has lead me to believe one of two things is true: independant followers of Teras are lying/wrong, or Teras doesn't dictate a particular lifestyle and the Teragen flavor of Teras is the nova-cultural equivalent of the USSR's flavor of communism.

I'll be the first to admit that I have no inside information.

[Ashnod]

Teras is only taught to Terats. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying. At this time, I can think of only one possible exception to this, and that possible exception is receiving a flawed education at best.

[kestrel404]

Well, that answers that question. I'm curious who the possible exception is, but if you were going to tell us, you probably would have already.

Might I ask why Teras is only taught to Terats? According to one of your earlier definitions (in another thread), a Terat is either a follower of Teras, or a member of the Teragen. Thus, in order to learn the 'philosophy' of Teras, you must either already be following said philosophy (possibly unknowingly), or a member of the group devoted to it. Stop me if I'm reading too much into a simple statement.

Why is Teras not taught openly? If it is a philosophy as you say, then wouldn't you gain more followers by spreading that philosophy rather than keeping it hidden? I've always wondered about that.

[Preston]

That I can answer, Alchemist.

To accept the philosophy of Teras is to commit murder. The person you are murdering is your human self. There is no coming back from that.

Now, is that evil? I am unclear on that part. It does not necessitate you becoming a monster, but I feel it makes it easier for someone to go down that path.

A good example would be to examine two individuals who most likely have embraced the Teras philosophy, Divis Mal and Count Orzaiz.

Neither one of them are murdering monsters, but neither do they much care about how many people get butchered on other novas' quests for self fulfillment. They have not become inhuman, but have shed their humanity. There is a difference, which we can be thankful for.

In my opinion, and its only my opinion, that is the limitation of Teras. By excluding your humanity from your future evolution, you are accepting a limitation on yourself. Once you become a terat, there is no leaving. I believe Ms. Hino has some experience with that.

In defense of those who have embraced Teras, it is our first attempt at defining our condition as novas. I do not believe it is ever meant to be a perfect answer for all of us, nor even seen as perfect.

I do hold it against them that they do not share what they know, because the better informed we are as a people, the better choices we can make. Instead, we are expected to buy into their answer, sight unseen. It leads me to believe that Terats are more concerned with believing they have made the only right choice than in uplifting novas as a race.

I swear, the next time some terat ends a conversation with the smug comment of "you will come around", I am going to explore my potential for projectile vomiting.