143 replies to this topic

[Cottus Centimane]

I'm familiar with Scion (up to God level), M&M (though unlike what seems to be the majority of earth's population, I don't especially care for its mechanics much - the way they break out powers is pretty cool though), and Cyberpunk 2020/Cybergeneration (CP 2020 was the first TT roleplaying game I ever played).

I've actually never heard of the other games being thrown around, except for Shadowrun of course.

I think Scion is the best candidate, personally. The setting is great, and the rules will take very little getting used to for anyone familiar with Aberrant, Trinity, Adventure!, or most other WW games for that matter. Having said that, there's no reason not to try other stuff as well.

[Alex Green]

I am familiar with basic Scion, I have the other Scion books too.  I've never read M&M but if a game starts up I'll change that.

But imho the rate limiting step here is the ST.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Who develops scion?

[Alex Green]

WW.  It uses a lot of the Abby mechanics.

[metaphysician]

Hmm, well, I've vaguely pondered running a Scion game before, though I never actually got around to doing it.  I could *maybe* dust off one of my concepts and try running it.  Be warned, I am not an incredibly experienced GM, and it'd probably end up pretty episodic, and likely "monster of the week" ish if I ran in the modern era.

[metaphysician]

I suppose to ask, which would appeal more to you all?

A Hero level game in the contemporary era, battling against titanspawn cults and miscellaneous monstery boojums that are taking advantage of the Titans having freed themselves ( Supernatural with super powers )?

Or a Demigod level game in the WWII era, battling pulpish occult Nazi schemes and mad science and whatnot?

[Alex Green]

Hero.

[Cottus Centimane]

They both sound fun to me. I like the stock setting provided by Scion, but I also like pulp a lot, so I'd be happy with either.

[metaphysician]

Well, the WWII concept isn't exactly new or divergent.  Its an alternate gameplay era provided in the Scion Companion.

( which I recommend pretty heavily; aside from one pantheon and one secret society, all the stuff in the Scion Companion is quite cool )

[Cottus Centimane]

Yeah, I have Hero, Demigod, God, Ragnarök, and the Companion. They're all pretty cool.  

I guess I just hadn't thought of the WWII plotline as being especially 'pulpy', but then maybe that's because I haven't taken a close look at that section of the book yet. I liked the Devas and the Shen a lot, and while the Tuatha were cool, the geasa and Enech rules are just waiting for someone to come along and abuse the crap out of them. The Yankee pantheon was kind of silly.

[metaphysician]

Okay, to hopefully stir some thoughts and ideas and discussion, a few of the house rules and other elements, if I decided to run a Scion game.  Starting with the mechanical, and working towards setting.

-Drawing and switching weapons is a Speed 1 action, not Speed 6.  This may be unrealistic, but Scions aren't realistic, they are cinematic.  Also, in my play experience, if it takes a Speed 6 action to switch weapons, no one switches weapons in combat.

-Mundane firearms do *not* get the Piercing property.  Instead, Relic weapons of any kind get it for free.  This is to encourage usage of Relic weapons ( melee or ranged ) rather than mundane firearms.  Remember, though, Piercing only halves soak due to armor ( including various forms of natural armor ), not stamina.

-While I haven't decided on the exact details, I tend towards using some or all the Adventure rules for recovering inspiration points, and apply them to Legend.  This helps deal with the issue of legend points seeming to be overly hard to replenish.  Doesn't solve things for demigods and gods, who have far bigger reserves, but that matter can be left to another time.

-If a God comes on screen, for whetever reason, I don't roll dice.  The scenario is handled strictly with roleplay and dramatic appropriateness.  Which means, natch, gods don't appear on screen in a hero level game except for interaction or as plot devices.  IOW, not often.  OTOH, if a god *does* appear on screen, perhaps delivering instructions to one or more PCs, please, don't randomly decide to try and kill him.  Even if it *is* Odin or Tezcatlipoca or one of the other mega bastards.

-Possible pantheons of choice for PCs:  any of those in the core book, as well as the Tuatha and Celestial Bureaucracy from the Companion.  The Atlanteans are off limits because they are missing and/or dead; sure, this means the books practically beg for a "lost Atlantean scion", but I'm keeping that option for my own NPC usage.  Devas are off limit because, IMO, they suck hard;  it would take far too much effort to rewrite them into something usable without violating half the premises of the setting.  The national pantheons are off limits because they weren't written with a modern era game in mind, and as much as I like Athena's "children", I'm not going to determine what happened for all of them between WWII and the present.  And no custom pantheons, because it makes my life easier.

-As far as PC concepts go, I'm flexible.  However, I prefer at least some degree of heroism.  Not all heroes are nice, and legitimate anti-heroes may not even be especially good, but I require a certain minimum of "go out and save the world" ness.  Mainly, I'd prefer to not see too many serial killers who wear the skins of their victims, or tricksters who destroy random passers by with devil's bargains.  Which doesn't mean you can't have a Scion of a distinctly evil god, I'd just prefer you not take after Daddy whole-heartedly.

[Alex Green]

All that sounds very workable.  I'd add to that list...

1) Members of the Tuatha Dé Dannan probably shouldn't pick their own Bans when creating their geasa.

2) Question: Do the bonus dice from Arete or Geasa for the Athletics ability apply to DV? (I suggest "No").

A few references:
Scion Quick-Reference Information
Comprehensive List of Knacks
Comprehensive List of Purviews

[metaphysician]

1.  I treat such as "negotiation between player and GM".  You don't get free reign to pick your Bans, but you don't get free reign to pick *anything*.  Just because it is in the book, doesn't mean I have to approve it.

2.  Hmm, my first thought is to say, agreed.  If Scion had a separate Dodge skill, like Exalted, maybe it'd be different.

Also, those are some *awesome* links.

[Alex Green]

Here's another good one... Character Creation and general Index of basically everything:  http://wiki.white-wolf.com/whitewolf/index...ion_%28Scion%29

[metaphysician]

You're trolling for bonus XP at chargen, aren't you.  :p

[Alex Green]

You're trolling for bonus XP at chargen, aren't you.  :p

Actually...    

... yes.

EDIT: And I see we hit the next page.

To re-post:
A few references:
Character Creation and general Index of basically everything
Scion Quick-Reference Information
Comprehensive List of Knacks
Comprehensive List of Purviews

[BlueNinja]

-Drawing and switching weapons is a Speed 1 action, not Speed 6.  This may be unrealistic, but Scions aren't realistic, they are cinematic.  Also, in my play experience, if it takes a Speed 6 action to switch weapons, no one switches weapons in combat.

  That seems like a rather big difference.  Why not a 2 or 3 instead?

-Mundane firearms do *not* get the Piercing property.  Instead, Relic weapons of any kind get it for free.  This is to encourage usage of Relic weapons ( melee or ranged ) rather than mundane firearms.  Remember, though, Piercing only halves soak due to armor ( including various forms of natural armor ), not stamina.

  IIRC, Relic weapons scale up with the god power, while firearms do not.  (Unless it's a Relic firearm, of course.)  Guns will become obsolete with power.

OTOH, if a god *does* appear on screen, perhaps delivering instructions to one or more PCs, please, don't randomly decide to try and kill him.  Even if it *is* Odin or Tezcatlipoca or one of the other mega bastards.

  I didn't think that Odin was a mega bastard? Or is your point just "Don't try to off mom and dad because they'll squish you"?

-As far as PC concepts go, I'm flexible.  However, I prefer at least some degree of heroism.  Not all heroes are nice, and legitimate anti-heroes may not even be especially good, but I require a certain minimum of "go out and save the world" ness.  Mainly, I'd prefer to not see too many serial killers who wear the skins of their victims, or tricksters who destroy random passers by with devil's bargains.

  So, no Sylar-type scions?

[metaphysician]

That seems like a rather big difference.  Why not a 2 or 3 instead?

Personal judgment.  I want players to freely switch weapons, change tactics, pick up dropped or surrounding weapons, etc.  So, I choose to put the least obstacle in the way of such.

  IIRC, Relic weapons scale up with the god power, while firearms do not.  (Unless it's a Relic firearm, of course.)  Guns will become obsolete with power.

True in the long run, but not so much at the Hero level.  Cutting armor soak in half is *really* useful at this point.  Remember, the presence of an imbalance in the future does not make the present balanced.  It just means everything is inbalanced.

  I didn't think that Odin was a mega bastard? Or is your point just "Don't try to off mom and dad because they'll squish you"?

Don't tick off mom and dad is good advice, but no, Odin *totally* is a mega bastard.  He just has ( reasonably ) good publicity.

  So, no Sylar-type scions?

Oh, you totally could play a Sylar style monster.  Its just, there's also this guy out there, goes by the name Steve Reeves these days.  He generally tries to live a quiet life with his wife and kids, but he really, really hates when the gods abuse mortals.

So, you *can* play Sylar, but if so, I can't guarantee that Herakles won't notice, be offended, and decide to do something about it.  :D

[Alex Green]

Every time I've tried a scion of Horus the game has collapsed on me... so I think I'm going to try Ares or Vulcan.

[BlueNinja]

Personal judgment.  I want players to freely switch weapons, change tactics, pick up dropped or surrounding weapons, etc.  So, I choose to put the least obstacle in the way of such.

Alright.

Don't tick off mom and dad is good advice, but no, Odin *totally* is a mega bastard.  He just has ( reasonably ) good publicity.

  I didn't do much more than skim the demigod and god books, so obviously I missed something in there.

Oh, you totally could play a Sylar style monster.  Its just, there's also this guy out there, goes by the name Steve Reeves these days.  He generally tries to live a quiet life with his wife and kids, but he really, really hates when the gods abuse mortals.

So, you *can* play Sylar, but if so, I can't guarantee that Herakles won't notice, be offended, and decide to do something about it.  :D

  Hah, no.  If the game is going to be somewhat slow paced (or at least have opportunity for those who are) I might see about revamping Coraline from Theomachy into Scion.  She's not a villain, really, she just views humans as a ... renewable resource.

[metaphysician]

If people want to start working on characters writeups, figure on using the default Hero level chargen from the Scion sourcebook.  I'm not going to particularly alter it.

And since there's the chance it might be relevant to backstory, two bits of setting I'm not using, aside from the afforementioned:  the Keepers of the World, and the Order of the Divine Glory.  The former are a fine conspiracy, but only relevant for a God level game.  So, I'm dropping it so I can use the NPCs as just NPCs, if it ever becomes relevant.  Order of the Divine Glory don't exist in the setting, period, because they make no sense.

[Alex Green]

Character Sheet:

Birth Name:
Nick Names:
Aliases:
Calling:
Known Relatives:
Nature:

Age:
Gender:
Ethnic Background:
Nationality:
Height:
Weight:
Eye Color:
Hair Color:
Handedness:
Distinguishing Marks:

Appearance:

Personality:
Interests:
History:

Pantheon:
Patron:
Virtues:

Physical: Strength, Dexterity, Stamina
Epic-Physical:
Knacks:

Mental: Perception, Intelligence, Wits
Epic-Mental:
Knacks:

Social: Charisma, Manipulation, Appearance
Epic-Social:
Knacks:

Abilities: Academics, Animal Ken, Art, Athletics, Awareness, Brawl, Command, Control, Craft, Empathy, Fortitude, Integrity, Investigation, Larceny, Marksmanship, Medicine, Melee, Occult, Politics, Presence, Science, Stealth, Survival, Thrown

Underlined Abilities require a sub-specialty.

Birthrights:

Boons:

Join Battle
Attacks:

Soak
Stamina:
Epic-Stamina:
Armor:
Total:

Health Levels:

Dodge DV:

Willpower:
Legend:
Legend Points:

Misc. Equipment:

Misc Formulas (don't include on sheet)
Dodge DV* (Dexterity + Athletics + Legend) / 2
Parry DV* (Dexterity + [Brawl or Melee] + Weapon Defense Bonus) / 2
Join Battle Wits + Awareness
Movement* Dexterity yards
Dash* Dexterity + 6
Climb Speed* Dexterity / 2
Swim Speed* Dexterity / 2
Vertical Jump Strength + Athletics yards
Horizontal Jump (Strength + Athletics) * 2 yards
Bashing Soak Stamina
Lethal Soak Stamina / 2

* are affected by Wound Penalties

[metaphysician]

And a reminder, anyone with Legend 2 or above ( that is, anyone who is not a mundane ) rounds up.

[metaphysician]

BlueNinja:  just to make sure you know this, let me remind that the three fates are *not* gods, in the Aesir or any other pantheon.  So, you'd have to change Coraline's origin from being the daughter of a Fate, to being the daughter of a goddess of fate.  Offhand, the best candidate among the Aesir is actually Frigga.

[BlueNinja]

BlueNinja:  just to make sure you know this, let me remind that the three fates are *not* gods, in the Aesir or any other pantheon.  So, you'd have to change Coraline's origin from being the daughter of a Fate, to being the daughter of a goddess of fate.  Offhand, the best candidate among the Aesir is actually Frigga.

  In the Scion rules, they might not be divinities, but IIRC mythologically speaking they were.  However, if I revamped her, I'd be changing 90% of her backstory anyway, so I'd look at other pantheons as well.

This all assumes that internet access stays available - so far, so good.

[Alex Green]

Definitely looking at Hephaestus.

[metaphysician]

If you have access to it, check out "Concept to Execution" in the Scion Companion, under Intelligence Knacks.  I think you'll like it.

[Alex Green]

Oh yeah.  Definitely starting down that path (you need two other feats before you can get it).

Craft and Art are a little pricey considering you have to get them individually.  

Just to check... Craft is usually linked with Int, and Art is linked with either Chr (perform type stuff) or Wits (create art type stuff)?

[metaphysician]

Sounds about right to me.

[metaphysician]

Okay, I seem to have two people right now.  I have another one who is thinking about playing.  If I can get one more player, than we'll get this started.