Aberrant RPG - Construct Idea: Bodymorph and Homunculus

[metaphysician]

The idea: taking as one of the powers inside a Bodymorph, a limited version of Homunculus, consisting of only the swarm version. This represents a character transforming into a Bodymorph that is amorphous or at least flexible, damaging, and generally resistant to harm. Thus, the character only takes one health level damage from any single attack ( except for certain types ), and does X health levels lethal damage to people engulfed in the effect ( depending on the number of dots Bodymorph assigned to this effect ).

In this manner, it resembles Bodymorph ( Density Decrease ). The main differences-

Pro: You can still attack at full effectiveness with all your powers. You get a free lethal attack, resembling an extremely weak Immolate.

Cons: Your not immune to any attacks, and are full susceptible to some. You can't ever gain the ability to pass through objects, or get through obstacles that can block stuff that isn't a liquid or gas.

Also of note, is that while somebody with Homunculus can break their swarm up into pieces, and even sock a bit away for emergency regeneration, this Bodymorph version *can't* really do that, as while Homunculus has unlimited duration, Bodymorph doesn't.

Now, in the original version of Homunculus, the swarm form is susceptible to fire and area attacks, both of which do full damage. I would allow these to be varied as appropriate for the exact Bodymorph, so a fire bodymorph would not be susceptible to fire, but would be to ice/cold. I would advise against "area attack" being replaced by anything less broad than "energy" or "physical", though.

Thoughts?

[Alex Green]

Wow!!! Now *that's* a truly innovative idea that I hadn't seen before. Well done.

RE: Legality

Two arguments here, one is that given that "Storm" is an already listed example, it should be legal, the other is that one dot of bodymorph shouldn't mimic 4 dots of Homunculus.

RE: Effect

...Alex goes to look up several things.

1) The damage you're doing is 1 level (not die) of lethal damage to one target at no range, thus it's not an Immolate effect.

2) You taking one level of damage per attack is a maximum, not a minimum, presumably normal soak still applies. Thus if you have a lethal soak of 15, you still puny human bullets but if you take a Q-Bolt plus Mastery the most amount of damage you can take is one level.

Additionally you'd gain Flexibility on steroids, no one could grab you...

It's definitely possible to build dangerous characters with this. Buy Regen, Q-Leech, and just out last people. I suspect if it's going to be allowed the PC should be forced to buy 4 dots in it (just like with H.), it seems a bit strong for a one dot power.

[metaphysician]

Good point. And requiring the full four dots of Bodymorph spent on the effect would help the balance issues.

As for the damage, I was kinda summarizing. Its not Immolate, no, but it is a kind of persistent non-action damage effect, with touch range.

It didn't occur to me the usage of Q-Leech, though that would work nicely. Another option is Immolate, mega physicals, and a bunch of extra health levels, to make a melee monster. Anybody trying to fight you hand to hand does at most one level per hit, while taking at least ( assuming a competent build ) one die of ping from the immolate per hit. Meanwhile, the Bodymorph guy makes as many melee attacks as possible, inflicting at least two dice of ping ( one physical, one immolate ) per hit. Given the high defense of the build, he could totally abandon dodging, and take multiple actions all for attacking, forcing the opponent to either spend a ton of effort dodging, or else eat a ton of damage.

Ranged attackers, by contrast, run into energy problems if they try and use quantum powers ( 2-3 points per attack, with the defender having to spend at most one point to regen a hit ). The bane of this build would be "Mega physicals with heavy weapons," or anybody with access to sizable levels of his weaknesses. Of course, you could stick a narrow Invulnerability on pretty cheaply, against many possible weaknesses. . .

[metaphysician]

Also as a random note, but whether inside a Bodymorph or not, the swarm Homunculus form makes for a great power on aberrants that have gone all tentacle monster.

[SkyLion]

Related question: If you have mega Str does the damage bonus add to the Homonculus swarm?

If you have immolate does it add to the Homonculous Swarm?

If you have Homonculous and clone and you turn all your swarms into one composite swarm, do you pool the auto health levels into a larger attack?

[metaphysician]

My judgement would be "No," "No," and "No."

The swarm damage is a separate effect, not strength-based. Since the normal strength bonus doesn't apply to the swarm damage, I don't see why mega strength would.

Likewise, the swarm damage is not an actual immolate, and even if it were, two separate immolates produce damage separately.

As for Clone + Homunculus, nothing else Clone allows you to do lets you combine separate attacks, so, no.

Basically, damage only adds when it says it adds.

[Alex Green]

If you have mega Str does the damage bonus add to the Homonculus swarm?

Sure... but whatever you do it caps at 1.

If you have immolate does it add to the Homonculous Swarm?

Immolate is always a seperate source of damage and doesn't add to anything. However if you make a swarm attack that would count as a "touch".

If you have Homonculous and clone and you turn all your swarms into one composite swarm, do you pool the auto health levels into a larger attack?

No more than multiple Clone attacks stack normally (i.e. not at all).

[metaphysician]

Hmm, potential trick there: swarm damage doesn't require an attack role AFAIK, you just distribute it amongst the people within reach.

Homunculus 5, does only five levels of lethal, which isn't much against novas. But. . . it means inflicting automatic offensive Immolate damage as long as the enemy is in reach. Even better, you could attack five novas with one level of swarm damage each, and inflict full Immolate damage against *all* of them.

[Alex Green]

True... On a side note IMHO the Homunculus 'attack' counts as an action.

The problem with Homunculus is the better aspects of it are extremely expensive.

20 NP Homun 4.

05 NP Q4.

03 Immolate (what, 5d lethal?)

I suppose you could buy Immolate with experience, but the killer is that with 20 NP for Homun 4 so this is pretty rare for PCs.

EDIT: Ouch, in theory why stop with a lethal immolate? Get 2 dots in an Aggravated Immolate, and then buy Leech as well.

[metaphysician]

Yep. That's why I don't normally call Homunculus broken, as its an expensive expensive power, at least for a starting level nova. The Bodymorph trick lets you take out one aspect of it, while retaining most or all its utility, and build a character around that.

For added fun? You could stick the Linked weakness on some of the powers, connecting them to Bodymorph for additional cost savings. Thus, "Acidic Blob Man" with the Bodymorph ( Homunculus ) and the Agg Immolate? Probably buildable as a starting PC, with a bit of taint.

[SkyLion]

Thing is though, is that the homonculus has whatever powers the nova has. So if you have flioght and you seperate your fist, it become the flying fist of doom and attacks for you without using your actions. So given that why wouldn't a homonvulus swarm have the same?

If a detached arm is mega stong or whatever then why wouldnt the little homonculous creatures be mega stromg?

Also Alex where does it say it would be capped at 1???

[Alex Green]

Also Alex where does it say it would be capped at 1???

OK, my bad, I misread your question. I thought you were asking about 'taking' damage, not 'dealing' it.

To re-answer your question, M-Str wouldn't add to a swarm attack (it's not a HTH attack) any more than it'd add to q-bolt. You're not doing strength damage.

Immolate side steps that issue since all it requires is 'touch'. Ditto Leech, Q-Vampire, Poison, etc. Actually all three of those would work better since you wouldn't need to roll to make contact.

So if you have flight and you seperate your fist, it become the flying fist of doom and attacks for you without using your actions.

Yeah, basically. It's never come up but I think this would suffer from Clone's limitations, i.e. both of you would have to pay to activate flight separately.

...why wouldnt the little homonculous creatures be mega strong?

Because it "has no quantum powers" (that's a quote). You could shift attribute dots around but it's never going to have powers.

[metaphysician]

OTOH, your swarm form *would* be mega strong, and could inflict mega strength damage. It just can't do it with the swarm attack, but instead with a 'normal' unarmed attack.

As for "flying fists of doom", one workaround for qp costs: purchase Flight with weaknesses that amount to "only for limbs separated with Homunculus" or such, allowing you to stick two levels of RQC on it. Given you only really need one dot anyway. . .

[Alex Green]

OTOH, your swarm form *would* be mega strong, and could inflict mega strength damage. It just can't do it with the swarm attack, but instead with a 'normal' unarmed attack.

... I don't think you *can* make normal HTH attacks while you're swarmed...

[SkyLion]

Why would Mega Str not add to a swarm attack? You say it isn't a strength attack and I would argue that it is. A dog or a nova that claws or bites for lethal damage (ie claws) adds mega strength to that claw or bite attack. The swarm attack is really lots of little insects biting or clawing at you.

Also when I said homonculus creatures I meant detached limbs...its an oversight IMHO that a detached arm could have all of one's powers but that creating a little imp to run around would not. A detached arm could have flight and mega strength and issue quite the beat down...why not a creature...and why not the thousands of small creatures that make up the swarm?

To put it another way, a swarm would have one's armor or force field available and otherwise dodge as normal including any mega dex. Why would it not get Mega Strength and Stamina and enhancments as well???

[Alex Green]

Why would Mega Str not add to a swarm attack? You say it isn't a strength attack and I would argue that it is. A dog or a nova that claws or bites for lethal damage (ie claws) adds mega strength to that claw or bite attack. The swarm attack is really lots of little insects biting or clawing at you.

The damage you get from a wasp sting doesn't come from it's strength.

Further, the damage is [Dots of Homon], which you can divide among as many targets as you see fit. It's not "Strength + Homon", nor does dividing strength damage made much sense in any case.

Also when I said homonculus creatures I meant detached limbs...its an oversight IMHO that a detached arm could have all of one's powers but that creating a little imp to run around would not.

It's not an oversight. The little imp doesn't have a node, but it does have an intelligence, wits, perception, and all the other attributes. Ergo it can do it's own thing even if not personally directed by you. Your arm on the other hand is always just your arm. If you don't tell it to do something it will do *nothing*. Meaning if you leave it somewhere outside your range of control, a child with a rock could kill it eventually.

To put it another way, a swarm would have one's armor or force field available and otherwise dodge as normal including any mega dex.

Armor and Force field I'll buy, but dodge seems a bit iffy. I seriously doubt you have access to those skills while broken into lots of pieces.

Why would it not get Mega Strength and Stamina and enhancments as well???

Your strength is divided among millions of creatures. The strength of any one of them is going to be something like zero. Are you suggesting that one ant could toss trucks around?

[SkyLion]

The damage you get from a wasp sting doesn't come from it's strength.

I disagree...it uses its strength to push its "claws" into you...just the same as a human with a dagger. Only the scale is different. And since we are talking quantum effects here there is no reason it should not apply. We already know that Mega Strong Novas defy the laws of physics with regards to leverage and I would argue that here as well..

Further, the damage is [Dots of Homon], which you can divide among as many targets as you see fit. It's not "Strength + Homon", nor does dividing strength damage made much sense in any case.

I feel like there is an oversight here. What if I had growth and Homonculous 4...it would follow that I could break into a larger swarm and do more damage (same thing with clone + homoncukus where you break into swarms and then have the swarms mix...there may not be a rule covering it but IC it makes sense perfectly and begs for a house rule modification if nothing else...).

It's not an oversight. The little imp doesn't have a node, but it does have an intelligence, wits, perception, and all the other attributes. Ergo it can do it's own thing even if not personally directed by you. Your arm on the other hand is always just your arm. If you don't tell it to do something it will do *nothing*. Meaning if you leave it somewhere outside your range of control, a child with a rock could kill it eventually.

Untrue. Detached limbs can act independantly even if you are knocked unconscious. However they can only do what you ordered them to do before hand and when they are done they stop. Also detached limbs are arguably more effective than imps since they have access to your full set of traits and powers whereas imps are little better than spies and cannon fodder...

Armor and Force field I'll buy, but dodge seems a bit iffy. I seriously doubt you have access to those skills while broken into lots of pieces.

Are you suggesting that you lose access to your ability to dodge or otherwise use basic skills when in swarm form? I dont buy it. If anything a swarm would be even more able to dodge or even scatter...

Your strength is divided among millions of creatures. The strength of any one of them is going to be something like zero. Are you suggesting that one ant could toss trucks around?

See my first reply. Quantum Strength is not bound by the laws of physics or mitochondria or anything else for that mater. it is almost more like TK. I am not saying an ant can toss a car around but the whole swarm moving together (as it does to cause damage) would be able to lift and toss a truck if it were a mega strong swarm....

[Alex Green]

I disagree...it uses its strength to push its "claws" into you...just the same as a human with a dagger. Only the scale is different. And since we are talking quantum effects here there is no reason it should not apply. We already know that Mega Strong Novas defy the laws of physics with regards to leverage and I would argue that here as well..

Scale is tremendously important and 99.99% of the damage a wasp does to you comes from the poison, not it's "strength". Worse, normal insects already have mega-strength, i.e. they can lift thousands of times their own weight, etc.

And given that you're broken into thousands of insects, giving every one of them Mega-Strength anything and letting you make thousands of normal mega-strength attacks seems seriously broken and counter-intuitive as a "common sense" move.

I feel like there is an oversight here. What if I had growth and Homonculous 4...it would follow that I could break into a larger swarm and do more damage...

It's not an oversight since the rules specifically cover you attacking multiple targets.

With a swarm you can *already* totally cover a target. So what changes with growth?

Untrue. Detached limbs can act independantly even if you are knocked unconscious. However they can only do what you ordered them to do before hand and when they are done they stop. Also detached limbs are arguably more effective than imps since they have access to your full set of traits and powers whereas imps are little better than spies and cannon fodder...

Nothing you said disagrees with anything I said. And you're right, imps are spies and cannon fodder. They also have intelligence (etc) and are 100% loyal, and can be separate from you basically forever. That right there implies they're not "little clones" and shouldn't have powers, especially since this is Q4 min and not Q5 min.

Are you suggesting that you lose access to your ability to dodge or otherwise use basic skills when in swarm form? I dont buy it. If anything a swarm would be even more able to dodge or even scatter...

Considering you don't have a "fist" or "hand" I don't see how you'd do a "martial strike" or even a normal "strike". Ditto kick, ditto block, etc.

A swarm has innate defenses (i.e. scattering) which are covered by the fact that it can't take too much damage except from area of attacks. However this reflects it's "lack of body" and I don't see how you'd do things that are very dependent on your body.

See my first reply. Quantum Strength is not bound by the laws of physics...

Which means the rules aren't intuitive and we're supposed to follow the rules. That doesn't mean when the rules say something we don't like we can make up our own.

[metaphysician]

*cough* What I was figuring, is that when the collective swarm exerts itself against someone or something, whether to "strike" it or to "lift" it, the result would be functionally identical to if the non-swarm individual was striking or lifting, even if its a wave smashing against them, or a thousand thousand little gnats all grabbing and hefting at once. I figured this, because unlike Density Decrease, Homunculus didn't specify anything about *not* being able to use normal abilities in swarm form ( and *did* specify what didn't work in other forms ).

That said, no, of course you can't use the swarm to inflict a thousand separate mega strength effects, nor can you add mega strength to the swarm damage. If it doesn't say they stack, then they don't stack.

Note that this still leaves swarm form with trade-offs: using separated body parts, you *can* get multiple full attacks, each benefiting from mega strength.

[Alex Green]

Don't know... it seems to me that most skills involving a body just aren't going to work. Could you even *talk* while swarmed? If you're a swarm of ants, could you drive a car? Throw a football? I suspect you're pretty much limited to the actions they gave.

A seriously interesting power but it needs a ton of ST rulings.

[SkyLion]

I think the awarm can act as one, maeing that all of that strength could be exerted by the mass. Also imps still cant move beyond your range so they arent that great as spies...

I would also allow the choice of speech to be up to the player. For example, the vibration of thousands of tiny wings mimicking speech or just plain quantum weirdness...

[Alex Green]

Also imps still cant move beyond your range so they arent that great as spies...

Actually I think that's "they can't be given new instructions if they're out of your range". If your instructions are "spy for a day, don't let anyone see you, then come back", then that works pretty well.