Aberrant: Stepping from Eden - Stepping from Eden

[Alistaire]

That's what I thought. Hey, I do that too. I don't do horoscopes either, but I have done natal charts for many (real) people (using software, it's easy), and actually it is kinda scary how close they often come to describing those people. But yeah, it can help with figuring out characters too. FWIW, my character is a Libran. We should get along just fine. ::wink

[Rorx]

This only leaves Jackson's and Darklighter's Characters outstanding, as I had preliminary stats from Forge today as well.

[Heritage]

That's what I thought. Hey, I do that too. I don't do horoscopes either, but I have done natal charts for many (real) people (using software, it's easy), and actually it is kinda scary how close they often come to describing those people. But yeah, it can help with figuring out characters too. FWIW, my character is a Libran. We should get along just fine. ::wink

And my sign/chart stuff is pretty much dead on (I'm very much a Leo - rowr!), but I have no idea why they are; the closest I can guess is that we are more closely tied to the Earth's cycles than science can currently prove.

I would never live my life by the Zodiac, but it adds some nice flavor ::biggrin

[SkyLion]

I myself am a proponent of astrology as a path to self knowledge. The problem alot of people have is that they look only at the Sun sign, which can tell broad strrokes, but the rest of the science is very complex so those broad strokes are modified and colored or even inverted by what else is going on. I recently was shown an amazing book called Astrology for the Soul, wherein a professional astrologer reveals that her method for getting to the bottim of a persons chart is to look at the position of the North Node of the Moon. I found the chapter pertaining to me to be so uncanny as to be shocking. It basically made my whole childhood make sense and brought clarity about what I'm about here. Can't recommend it enough.

As for why it works, I am a very sceintific person but science is limited to specific questions and there still be great mysteries. In many ways I am a mystic and believe that what we call science will eventually recognize a fundamental connectedness of things which is where astrology gets it's insight. A scientist looks upon a star and sees a force of nature. The egyptians and others looked upon the sun as the eye of Ra or some other god. I think the truth is somewhere in between. There was a movie that came out recently that mentioned how when you get closer to the Sun the Quantum energies are such that determinism breaks down. For all we know, stars could be spinning vortexes into a greater Source of life, and they certainly emit all kinds of interesting and distinctive radiation, of which we know affects us in different ways.

Oh yeah Heritage, and I am Leo sun, and Leo rising, and Leo north Node and several other places on my chart, so I am like a super-Leo....RAAAAAWWWRRR!!!!! ::happy

Also, part of the reason I was teasing you is because I have done it myslef. For example, in the Cthulhutech chargen rules it specifically gives a brief overview of the zodiac as a hook for personality. For my first character I went overboard with it:

Astrology: Scorpio-cusp-Sagitarrius Sun, Aries rising, Virgo Moon. Mars in Aries, Venus in Aquarius.

Hee.

[Alistaire]

And my sign/chart stuff is pretty much dead on (I'm very much a Leo - rowr!), but I have no idea why they are; the closest I can guess is that we are more closely tied to the Earth's cycles than science can currently prove.

While I myself have have a spiritual or "mystical" side like Skylion, I also like scientific answers where they can be had. While I have been known to believe in some whacky things, I personally don't think that there is anything mystical or supernatural about astrology. The way I've heard it, the history of astrology began with astronomers charting the patterns of the stars and planets, and since many were multidisciplinary, those who observed people's personalities started to notice patterns there too. While in theory there could be a cause-and-effect relationship between the planets and human personality, there is no evidence for it, and as the saying goes "correlation is not causation". In other words, the planets may have no more influence on who you are than your clock has on what's on TV. I see it as these personality patterns cropped up for another reason, and that the planets, being essentially a 7 (or 10) handed clock, were a convenient way to measure and track them.

As to why there are these patterns? I believe that it is simple genetics. We already know that genetically a person can be agressive or passive, sociable, or not, etc. Sure, environment helps shape this, but there is a beginning pattern there to start it all. Our genes make us all different for a reason, so that certain traits may prove useful in a change of environment; e.g. some minority white bunnies start surviving better than the brown bunnies should an ice age start, or they migrate north. It's the same with personalities. Of course, with social creatures such as humans, different traits also have the benefit of allowing us to serve different roles and thus specialize, with all the benefits that entails.

So I see the correspondance of difference in personality with planetary movements as just natures way of making (relatively) sure that we get people of different personalities. Some sort of weird, genetic cycle that is one of the million factors that shape the final pattern that emerges at conception. It need be nothing more mystical than that. Now if only we could prove that scientifically, then we'd really be in business, and maybe start to get some formal respectibility to astrology (the personality kind, not the love-and-lottery-numbers-future-predicting kind).

As for why it works, I am a very sceintific person but science is limited to specific questions and there still be great mysteries. In many ways I am a mystic and believe that what we call science will eventually recognize a fundamental connectedness of things which is where astrology gets it's insight.

While I don't think that this is where astrology gets its 'insight' (as I've just described), science is already starting to notice this 'interconnectedness' you speak of. Particularly in quantum physics, which I study (not in school, but by myself) partly for this reason. There are a lot of 'supernatural' things that quantum theory, depending how much of it is proven true, could explain, mainly things like psychic abilities. This is one of the reasons I like Trinity so much, because a great deal of their 'noetic science' is in fact in agreement with modern quantum theory, which makes me wonder how much they based their ideas from it. Knowing White Wolf, probably a great deal. Their games tend to have a great deal of research on their subjects, and then twisting it slightly to suit their purposes, which is why Trinity science isn't perfectly in accord with modern science. Still, it's surprisingly accurate. One excellent book on this (if you can still find it) is called Space Time and Beyond, by Fred Alan Wolf and Bob Toben. It reads almost like a primer for Trinity Noetic science (but with cartoons!). It makes me very hopeful that one day we'll figure out how to really become "psions". ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

RE: Astronomy

I suspect in RL it's more useful in theory than in practice. My grandmother was a big fan and wrote me up when I was very young. It's just amazing how far off she was. I suspect the way it works is by telling people what they want to hear, and since she had to do it before the facts were clear, that wasn't possible.

[SkyLion]

It's Astrology Alex not Astronomy. I saw a funny comic in math department in college with Astronomy 101 visible on the door window behond the teacher and a student asks "What's the difference between astronomy and astrology?" and the teacher relpies "lots and lots of math."

Amusing of course though not entirely accurate. Astrology does use math, mostly in the form of angles, geometry and trigonometry.

I suspect you grandmother wasn't a professional Alex so it's possible she didn't get you accurate. Furthermore as I said above, if you only go off the superficial things it can apear to be opposite. Like some people will come and say "I'm opposite of what it says" under their Sun but if you look at the position of planets in their houses you will see things that can modify, even to the point of opposition the broad strokes delineated by the Sun.

Point is I am a very spiritual person. I don't deny science or the modern explanations of things, but I do believe that there is more going on than we can currently percieve or describe, even with Quantum Theory. Higher order dimensions for example are only just barely being looked into with string theory, but there are big holes in our knowledge and sometimes our current theories don't meet up so well along the edges as it were.

Suffice to say I know there is more going on, but it isn't something that I could, or even would particularly care to try to, explain to someone else. Call it faith if you will, but it has served me, and uncannily well I might add. Some scientists even today are looking into consciouness, placebo effect, and measurable resluts from people practicing prayer...even over long distances. However, I don't believe they will ultimately find the answers they are seeking until they are willing to set aside some of their preconceptions and assumptions about the universe.

BUt, we digress. Wasn't a game supposed to be happening around here? ::tongue

[Alex Green]

I suspect you grandmother wasn't a professional Alex so it's possible she didn't get you accurate. Furthermore as I said above, if you only go off the superficial things it can appear to be opposite. Like some people will come and say "I'm opposite of what it says" under their Sun but if you look at the position of planets in their houses you will see things that can modify, even to the point of opposition the broad strokes delineated by the Sun.

This sounds suspiciously like, "we can add more and more factors until the outcome is whatever we want it to be". ::sly ::tongue

But yeah, we've moved off topic.

[SkyLion]

If you are truly interested and open minded, Alex, there are a number of very well written treatise on the deep and complex study of astrology. However, if your mind is made up, and knowing what I do of you, the basis in occult symbolism is likely to raise to many barriers in your own mind to appreciate the field. As I said, I have no interest in debating or otherwise trying to convince a skeptic on matters of faith. There are far more well educated and well written people out there if you choose to explore.

[Alistaire]

BUt, we digress. Wasn't a game supposed to be happening around here?

The game's not starting until we get the last couple of characters in. And I'm enjoying this since I don't get to talk to too many people about this stuff. Perhaps the thread should be split to keep things on track?

This sounds suspiciously like, "we can add more and more factors until the outcome is whatever we want it to be"

I can see that, but it is a complicated thing that's hard to do by hand, so I can easily see someone being wrong in their calculations, never mind the interpretation of those calculations, which is a whole other deal. That's why I use computer programs myself for the math, and I compare my own observations of those I do charts for so I can get a better idea of what is going on. To me, there's nothing mystical about it. It's all science. The charts are the hypothesis, you make the observations, and compare. I've done over dozen and so far only one seemed far off, with the rest being about 80-90% right. Good odds statistically.

I suspect the way it works is by telling people what they want to hear, and since she had to do it before the facts were clear, that wasn't possible.

I used to worry about this too, what I call the "Nostradamus effect". Things worded vaguly enough that people can interpret it any way they like. So I started taking charts that didn't belong to people and applying to them. There was no comparison. In my many observations, this stuff holds a high degree of correlation (although it's foolish to say that any such model will predict with 100% accuracy). And this is coming from a person who used to hate astrology to begin with.

[Heritage]

I tend to favor Alistair's line of thinking that the stars and planets are a clock that measures are more terrestrial phenomenenon we don't yet undertsnad, but that's me; I'm a be proponent of the preternatural over the supernatural, though I try to keep an open mind at all times. I also think no one is a slave to astrology, any more than we are slaves to genetics, our upbringing or our choices in life; they all become part of what makes each of us unique.

[SkyLion]

Thanks Heritage, i forgot to mention that in my retort. Yeah, antal chart is just that...like a snapshot of the Heavens at the moment of one's birth. Where you go and how you react to those influences is entirely up to you.

Or as like to say, "Just because we created it, doesn't mean it isn't true," and "Whether or not my being a Leo is true or not, I enjoy playing the role." ...which is in itself an incredibly Leo perspective so go figure...

[metaphysician]

Why am I reminded about the scene where Zhang Fei offered to comfort Artemis' fears via the use of his 'magic sticks'. . .

[SkyLion]

in fact he's Eden's best everything!].

Except for the fact that many other Novas will have the maxed attribute/skill combo (easy to do with NP) and even greater Mega Attribute ratings...so this statement isn't really accurate JC.

[Alex Green]

So he's Eden's first or second best at everything. Seriously, it's a very strong concept, especially in a mixed game where we might end up doing physical, social, or intellectual work. He's *far* beyond baseline expert at *everything*... only a nova specialist inside his own field does better.

RE: Astrology not Astronomy

Yep, my bad. I'm always reading one as the other.

This probably isn't the forum for a talk about Astrology's merits... feel free to PM me over on NPrime. Fair warning; While I consider myself open minded, IMHO if reasonable people can disagree over whether something exists, then the burden of proof doesn't rest on the one saying it doesn't.

[Jackson Creed]

Except for the fact that many other Novas will have the maxed attribute/skill combo (easy to do with NP) and even greater Mega Attribute ratings...so this statement isn't really accurate JC.

Actually, with max attributes and a skill rating of at least 4 in every skill (and a few at 5) plus a Mega attribute in seven out of nine attributes + Luck 5... Yes, actually he is, by far, the most talented Nova on Eden. There may be Novas who might be as good, perhaps even slightly better, and with more Mega dice to roll... but Luck 5 helps to even that out significantly. Saying that Jack Jameson is the best Nova at everything (at least among the Edenites) is like saying Pax is the most powerful Nova on Earth in 2008... to all intents and purposes he is.

Hands up all those players who actually spent more than a couple of NP on rounding out their skills... anyone? I tend to think not, though I could be wrong, given the number of Q5-6, flaw riddled, Taint 5 ambassadors, I don't think that I am wrong. My concept is different from everyone elses. I can't fly, teleport, control energy and matter, blow things up or control minds.

What Jack can do is everything else.

He can break advanced encrypted security systems, while writing new software so elegant and sophisticated that Alex Cassel would be impressed by, the doodles he made on the napkins on his coffee break fulfill all ten criteria to be Masterpieces, the martial arts and gymnastic routine he used to focus himself in the morning would have gotten every gold medal at the Olympics, later on he writes some award winning poetry and short fiction, then he cooks a Michelin Star class gourmet lunch, while entertaining some visiting dignitaries with witty reparte and shows why he is the most popular after dinner speaker on Eden. A pretty dull morning really, but the afternoon he has planned is actually going to be busy...

[SkyLion]

True, factoring luck in, you are going to average 7 successes on any skill you have a mega attribute in, 6 if you don't have the Mega. For another non-lucked nova to get the same result, they would also have to have the maxed att/skill and mega att at 3 or more. So yeah you're good. I didn't spend hardly any points on skills for my character so you have a great niche. I will just have to remember to attune you when the Aberrants attack...

[Alex Green]

No attune here.

[SkyLion]

I have enough attune for 440 lbs. of people. A good thing in a firefight since my character is nigh invulnerable. I will trust Ares' intuition to let me know when to raise my force field. Or I could just take off my mask and seduce the bad guy....

[Alex Green]

I have enough attune for 440 lbs. of people. A good thing in a firefight since my character is nigh invulnerable. I will trust Ares' intuition to let me know when to raise my force field. Or I could just take off my mask and seduce the bad guy....

NP... but 440 isn't a lot. ::devil

[SkyLion]

Enough for 2-3 normal humans or several children, or one or two of my weaker comrades.

[Heritage]

Okay, it feels like my stupid chest cold is finally on the way out (thank God), and I'm starting to feel like my old self again, complete with actual creative energy; look for my background stuff tonight. I mean it this time! ::angry ::tongue

[Rorx]

I heard from Darklighter today, he is going to have to skip this game due to other commitments.

I'm starting to post the Profiles for some of the NPC's and hope to get things going in the next couple of days...

[SkyLion]

WHAT?!?!?!?!? That is SO Bogus! DL promised me info on the monsatery that he claims he wrote up, and even was interested in exploring possible romantic ties to my character. :headesk:

[Heritage]

Just wanted to let people know that I am still very interested in this game, but just my work schedule (I work pretty much everyday) and health issues have really cut into my creative time, which chargen takes a lot of, at least for me. Once I get my characters up (both here and in Knave's game) I am set to go, guns blazing and very eager to leap into the Trinityverse feet first.

Also I might be getting a new job soon with willget my home several hours earlier every night, so I will have a lot more creative time; wish me luck!

[Rorx]

No worrys Heritage, I'll start without the final background data and you can brush it up as we go along.

[Heritage]

One last quick question before I post: what details exist about the Harmony and the citadel there? I'm at a bit of a disadvantage since I can't seem to find my Stellar Frontiers book Since my character has agoraphobia (which I do intend to roleplay), I don't see her leaving the citadel very often if she can help it. She's actually a bit of a claustrophile, and prefers the inside of ships or man-made colonies to the great outdoors.

[Rorx]

Not a lot in the book about either. harmony is the only large town/city on Eden with about 90% of the population there or close by. Likewise most Nova live in the citadel so it will be big and opulent most likely, but private suites to own taste.

[Rorx]

Heritage, you might want to edit you post in the IC. Eden has been in contact with the Upeo for almost 10 years (2113 to 2123). It was after all the cause of the Upeo Exodus in '14. And you have been in contact with Earth since '21.

So you have had a fair chance to see Earth tech recently.

[Heritage]

Heritage, you might want to edit you post in the IC. Eden has been in contact with the Upeo for almost 10 years (2113 to 2123). It was after all the cause of the Upeo Exodus in '14. And you have been in contact with Earth since '21.

So you have had a fair chance to see Earth tech recently.

Okay, I should have been more specific. But am I correct in assuming haven't seen the inside of a jumpship yet?

[Rorx]

There is mention in TFR:Noetics of a scientist based on a Jumpship working on/with Novas, presumably at/from Eden, so they have been around the area, but probably rarely. Whether you've been on one is entirely up to you, but you coud have manufactured the oppurtunity if you really wanted to...

[Alex Green]

The real question is the intersection between Q6 (or even Q8) novas and a jumpship.

Side note, how long does a jumpship take to get places anyway?

[Rorx]

There has been some progress/development on the Jumpships over the years so I'm going to say the travel time objectively is a min 2 days and max of 5 days. To those travelling it feels like 2-6 hours, varying from person to person. The downside with the Jumpship is still the 10 day average recharge time between jumps.

A Transportal can go to a location the Ferryman is at least Vaguely Familiar with, this gives a max objective travel time of 1 hour and subjective of about 5 sec

[Heritage]

Okay, tweaked her response a smidge so that it should be fine, I think ::wink

[SkyLion]

Sigh...okay folks Im back.

It's been a rough couple of weeks for me. About 11 days ago I broke up with my girlfriend of 9 months. It was the right thing to do at the time. Maybe at some point we will work things out but we needed to break our good/bad cycle. I'm allowing myself to move on but there is a small crack in the door if she wants to work things out. At this point it is up to her.

Then not a week later, last Monday I was out dancing with friends and my knee buckled, popping out and back into place and I crumpled in incredible pain. I have no disability or workman's comp so I am at the financial mercy of my folks to pay my bills until I am back on my feet. Currently I can hardly put any weight on the leg and need crutches to move around. I will be seeing the orthopedic specialist in about a week and a half (it took 7 hours waiting in the urgent care wing of the hospital just to get the referral i told them i needed) and they will be able to determine exactly which ligaments are injured, if there is menescal tearing, how severe the damge is, if I will need surgery or not and the prognosis and steps I need to take to get back onto my dancing feet.

Crazy times. The good news is I have more time for gaming since I can't really do much of anything else at the moment. Sorry it took me so long to get back here. I was a wreck after the breakup, even though I initiated the conversation and the idea of escapist fantasy was the last thing I needed. Am in good spirits now so don't be worried and please don't tell me that you are sorry for me. Everything happens for a reason and I will overcome.

[Alex Green]

Heal fast Ski.

[SkyLion]

Have to wait another week to see the Orthopedist. In the meantime I invested almost 300 dollars in some literature on knee pain, specific exercise for rehabilitation and prevention and a book on how to avoid surgery if at all possible and the right questions to ask the doc. Until I see them (and with all persistence, get an MRI) I won't really know the extent of the damage. I will definitely give the update next week. I am also getting back into my regular posting.

[Heritage]

Sorry to hear about your recent difficulties, Sky; I know from personal experience how long you wait in a hospital if your heart hasn't exploded or one of your arms has been ripped off. I hope your mending process, both physical and emotional, goes as smoothly as possible ::smile

[SkyLion]

Thanks!

Now let's game shall we? ::wink

[Alex Green]

What does Heritage's character look like?