Aberrant RPG - Matter Chameleon

[Rorx]

Ok, my take on this is a variable Bodymorph with a limitation that you have to touch the material to start with and that gained Str and Soak are limited.

So is there a list of generally accepted Bodymorphs by material, or do I get to choose where they go, or does the ST need to prepare a range of things in advance?

For powers got with MC dots I believe you use the MC dice pool rather than the normal dice pool. Also instant powers cost 3qp to use from within MC.

[Alex Green]

I would strongly suggest that you prepare and run past the ST three or four, just to make sure that the two of you have a meeting of minds.

[Rorx]

Thanks, I will do when I get around do it...

On another/related matter, what happens about powers that come from multiple suites or suite and individual powers. The most obvious example would be something like Armour, if you had Armour 1 as an individual power and then activated Matter Chameleon with a material which also gave Armour dots would they add together (upto whatever limits there might be for Quantum and/or MC), or would only the greatest rating take effect? Similarly for powers such as Bodymorph and Shapeshifting. In fact Matt Cham is slightly different from the others as it has it's on built in limits on how much extra Str and Soak can be generated by the Matt Cham itself (Str = no. of dots, Soak = 3x dots, unless very good roll and kind ST).

So, for example, if you had Armour 1 as an individual power, activated Matt Cham on a material that gave you another Armour 2 (but limited as per Matt Cham), and also Shapeshifted at 3 dots and wanted to get Armour 3 what would be the equivalent Armour dots that you would have for the duration?

Would it be Armour 6 - just adding them all up.

Armour 5 - because the character wasn't Q6.

Armour 3 - because only the highest rating applies?

Or something else I haven't considered yet?

[Alex Green]

This is an ST question, but if it were me...

There are a number of situations where this could happen.

Examples:

You have Armor 3, and Q-Imprint someone else who also has Armor 3.

You have Armor 3 + SuperHeavy, and also have Bodymorph(Armor 3)

You have Armor 3 and use Matter Cham for Armor 3 as well.

IMHO you *still* get hit by the 5 dot limit no matter what the source or extra.

IMHO you get the best and worst of everything up to that point. Further, keep in mind that MC and even Bodymorph doesn't really give you a power, it gives you the effects of a power. But even so you still only get Armor 5.

The powers remain separate, so +2 Armor that you get somewhere other than Boost doesn't add to Armor+Imper or Armor+SuperHeavy, but you still get combined effects up to the 5 dot limit.

Similarly: Nova X has...

INV:BC: Energy 2

INV: Fire 2

INV: Claws 2

If someone attacks him with Fire Claws he gets to apply all 3 powers, but the effect caps at 5 dots of INV so that's +30, not +36

[metaphysician]

That said, I wouldn't allow an "Invulnerability: Claws", because thats a power, not a SFX. "Invulnerability: Cutting" is possible, but then, it wouldn't cross over with Energy or Fire.

( Invulnerability: Quantum Vampire and such is viable, but technically speaking, its just shorthand for Invulnerability: Attribute/Life Draining Effects )

[Alex Green]

That said, I wouldn't allow an "Invulnerability: Claws", because thats a power, not a SFX. "Invulnerability: Cutting" is possible, but then, it wouldn't cross over with Energy or Fire.

Yah, that one is silly. But i was in a rush.

[SkyLion]

Yeah but i would argue that once you get to Q6, much like Vampires in WoD with Generation, all bets are off and one could theoretically use "pump

"powers all the way to 10.

For example I was thinking of someone who bought 5 dots in growth hit Q6 and then got Mastery. This would make one over a mile tall...no way in hell Im going to believe a limit of 5 Mega Str...such a creature would be able to stride continenets in hours or less and pick up whole mountains.

Of course, no ST in their right mind would allow such a thing but its theoretically right there for the taking...

::wacko

[Rorx]

Ok, so what I thought was going tobe the case is correct, they do add, but only up to a limit of 5 dots, at least until you hit Q6 then it could change.

On a seperate, but possibly similar matter can you buy the same power with different or no extras as though they were seperate powers.

For example. Could you have a character with Telepathy 5, Telepathy + Surreptious 5, Telepathy + Channeling 5? Or would you have to share the dots out so that the total of the dots was 5?

As for MC I recently heard from my ST and they want to do something different with it, and run it like Shapeshift. Roll success for dots to spread amongst abilities available based upon the material in question. He hasn't given me any examples yet so I'm not sure how it will work out, but it sounds interesting...

[Alex Green]

For example. Could you have a character with Telepathy 5, Telepathy + Surreptious 5, Telepathy + Channeling 5?

Another ST call.

Personally I don't mind this, again as long as you're only using 5 dots at any one time.

What I sometimes see, and strongly disagree with, is trying to buy 5 dots of Armor and 5 dots of Armor + Imper, and 5 dots of Armor + Superheavy and have them all effect your soak at the time time.

[Rorx]

Yeah, I agree, there is no way I'd agree to having mutlipes of the same power that would apply at the same time, as in you example with Armour (the same could be said of most defensive powers). However, as with my example of Telepathy, most offensive powers are a single use rather than a duration and so having different versions with different Extras don't accumulate in the same way, but tend to represent different effects.

After all, a Q-Bolt with Explosive is a fireball, while one with Spray/jet has a very different effect and feel to it. Similarly with movement powers, you can't generally be using more than one instance of the power at the same time.

[metaphysician]

The only exception that occurs to me is Force Field and Force Field ( Wall ). There's plenty of logical reasons why you could have both, and why you might want to use both. My inclination is to encourage a force field projecting character to buy their personal defense using another power, but thats just me.

[Alex Green]

Logical reasons? Sure. But logical reasons are cheap. There's nothing stopping someone as defining their Armor as "Thick Skin" and their Armor+Impervious as "Forcefield".

If someone wants to have two forcefields up either they should be taking the best of either roll or they should be making a Forcefield roll with the *dots* adding.

[metaphysician]

Eh, honestly, I wouldn't let someone define "fast healing" as a Force Field ( well, other way around ). But thats just me.

Mainly this is why someone playing, say, an Invisible Woman clone, I'd suggest they stick their personal defense inside the Elemental Mastery, and use the Force Field power solely for the area-protecting Wall effect.

[SkyLion]

EM already has a wall option, though both that and the shield techniquea are pretty weak compared to a "true" force field...

[Rorx]

Getting back to the topic of Matter Chameleon, what is the oddest power or enhancement that you can think of that could fit within MC for a material?

The usual ones I would take to be things like:

Armour

Density Increase/Decrease

Invisibility

Flight

Claws

EM vision

Immolate

Transmit - Electric form down wires, Water through pipework etc?

Enhanced Movement (Mercury?)

Storm

EMP

So what other ones can you come up with, and the material that might justify it?

[SkyLion]

All of those look good with the exception of Electromagnetic vision. On the other hand, that enhancment and others are available through shapeshift so you're good. add hypermovement or possible teleport, weakness, not through sealed opaque surfaces, if you are matter chameleoning into light. Then again Im not sure if your nanobot theme would allow for such a thing but its technically within the purview of the power (I think matter chameleon is also energy chameleon right?).

[Alex Green]

Density Increase is problematic with the Strength Increase Limits that MC has.

[Rorx]

Actually I thouggt EM vision was one from the examples of Bodymorph?

I was thinking more of MC in general rather than Nathan's pseudo-nanite based theme.

For a Light form I'd think a simpler Teleport - Line of sight would do it.. Hypermove? Perhaps for a sound energy form, but I can't think of a material form to justify it.

Yeah, DI could only be taken at a couple of dots to fit in the limits, and Armour is a problem with the Soak limits.

[Alex Green]

Speaking of soak,

Considering that INV is one of the examples Bodymorph can buy, IMHO it should be allowed without considering the soak rules.

[SkyLion]

There we go tinkering again Alex! ::tongue Moving up soak limits and overruling the text....so adventurous! Seriously though, the system needs work. So far BN has been really cool about negotiating around system stuff. Sounds that way if he is handling MC more like Shapeshift...which is cool with me given Esteban's ,ore energy themed shapeshifting, but if the two oerlap too much what is there to distinguish them, mechanics wise?

As for Invulnerabilites...how many dots would you suggest Alex? At first I was going to suggest that we just house rule that powerblocking by turning into something negates that attack entirely but that may be too much since it means effectively unlimited soak.

[Alex Green]

Not unlimited soak. I'm just pointing out that that if Joe is a fire based nova, and he attacks someone with MC who becomes made out of living fire, then Joe's fire based attacks should have just gotten a hair cut.

He can still punch the guy, shoot him, or whatever, so *overall* soak isn't affected, but that Firey Q-Bolt looks less effective.

[metaphysician]

Perhaps to specify things a bit: MC derived Invulnerabilities can *only* be Level 2, narrow category.

[Rorx]

From memory a powerblock with MC gives one extra Soak per success against the initial attack. Presumably any Invulnerabilities would kick in for subsequent attacks, but to fit the Soak limit they should only be 1 dot per 2 dots in MC.

However, I'm not sure how that would stack with things like Armour as far as the Soak limits are concerned. Having said that I suppose that 95% of the time you would get Armour/Density Increase from a material form and Invulnerability/Density Decrease from energy forms.

[Alex Green]

Perhaps to specify things a bit: MC derived Invulnerabilities can *only* be Level 2, narrow category.

Yes, thank you. That's exactly the point.

However, I'm not sure how that would stack with things like Armour as far as the Soak limits are concerned. Having said that I suppose that 95% of the time you would get Armour/Density Increase from a material form and Invulnerability/Density Decrease from energy forms.

Most attacks aren't especially vulnerable to an INV anyway. Take Bullets, turning into lead or whatever they're made of now days wouldn't give you INV:Bullets. Ditto Mega-Strength, ditto pretty much any physical attack, and the energy attacks are mostly from novas.

[Rorx]

It's trivial to be able to carry samples of suitable materials that could bestow/allow a limited number of abilies, including Armour.

I would have that it would be only energy attacks that you would use a MC powerblock. Having said that, using a powerblock against an attack with a good quality sword should get you some Armour and possibly DI that would help for the rest of the fight.

[Finbar]

Perhaps for a sound energy form, but I can't think of a material form to justify it.

Keep in mind Klaw, Master of Sound, from Marvel Comics.

Yeah, DI could only be taken at a couple of dots to fit in the limits, and Armour is a problem with the Soak limits.

When it comes to MC or Bodymorph, I would prefer to see Invulnerability (Narrow Version) rather than Armor, unless of course it's hard material (in which case switch the preference). So with Flame, I would go for Invulnerability, but with Iron I would prefer Armor....

FR

[Rorx]

Keep in mind Klaw, Master of Sound, from Marvel Comics.

FR

Sorry Finbar, not one I'm familiar with.

My comic days are far away and long over (say about 15 years over), and even then I didn't go for much in the way of traditional Marvel types on a regular basis. I picked up the occassional X-Men, New Mutants or Alpha Flight but that was about it for Marvel. In the late 80's and early 90's I picked up on some of the DC and independents who were doing mini-series, and of course Constantine, Sandman, and graphic novels like Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Dark Knight Returns etc as they came out.

So what was the deal with Klaw?

[metaphysician]

Guy who wanted to steal the Wakandan vibranium mound to fuel his sonic cannon. T'challa smashed the cannon, it blew up, and transformed Klaw into a being made of sound. He's one of the more powerful mid tier villains Marvel has.

He's also not an example of Matter Chameleon, as his power is more a permanent Bodymorph. And I'd be disinclined to allow a Matter Chameleon to transform you into an energy form, anyway. Barring a Q6-level Extra that allows such ( ie, what the Absorbing Man has, basically ).

[Alex Green]

...I'd be disinclined to allow a Matter Chameleon to transform you into an energy form, anyway.

It's one of the MC examples in the book. IMHO where it gets abusive is letting someone turn into non-damaging energy effects that are always around. Example: Light because you're standing in Sun Light.

The book example is someone who is exposed to an energy effect (electricity) strong enough to damage her. Similarly, if someone has an Immolate field up and the MC guy wants to touch it, he should be allowed to do so and have his powers activate first.

IMHO in order to change into an energy form you should be exposed to a non-trivial amount of that energy.

[Rorx]

Or if they only use a "trivial" amount of the energy to change their form then any powers they gain from that form can only do a trivial amount of damage?

By that logic then changing to a matter form should take contact with a substantial amountof that matter as well, which rather negates the typical tactic of carrying around small samples of several materials (diamond, steel, tungsten, water etc) in order to have a rage of choices available.

Conversely while they couldn't turn into a Light form due to the presence of sun light, they could presumably turn into air, because there is a lot of that about?

[Alex Green]

Air IMHO we're stuck with. Creel never does it but he's pretty stupid and we have seen him change into water when he's been in water.

By that logic then changing to a matter form should take contact with a substantial amount of that matter as well, which rather negates the typical tactic of carrying around small samples of several materials (diamond, steel, tungsten, water etc) in order to have a rage of choices available.

Solids always do full damage so those would be "substantial" amounts. If I have Mega-Str 5 and I throw a piece of diamond at you, you're going to take [25].

I don't think we should allow Radio waves, Radiation, Light, Darkness, etc just because those are always around... but if someone puts his hand into an electrical outlet that's clearly allowed.

Similarly I'd allow someone to carry around a laser, or a lead box with some radioactives in it. Also similarly someone with Matter Creation could create something nasty and then use Matter Cham to change into it.

[metaphysician]

Also similarly someone with Matter Creation could create something nasty and then use Matter Cham to change into it.

"Form of Chlorine Trifluoride!" *cough*

( no, that'd be an agg immolate, bought separately )

[Rorx]

So then you've got the question of how much 'energy' needs to be about in order to be able to take that form?

Radiation - presumably a small sample work do, as long as it was something with a short half life, and I aso assume that when you say radiation in this case you are reffering to x/gamma rays rather than alpha or beta particles.

Light - something above a normal torch, but how about a custom high powered halogen one?

Mirowaves - standing close to the transmitter array of a cellphone tower (within 10ft?), or similarly a RADAR station?

Sound - within 5ft of speakers putting out at least 120+Db?

Is that the sort of thing you had in mind Alex?

I'd like to add Molecular Manipulation to Alex's suggestion of Matter Creation, but then I would wouldn't I. ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

So then you've got the question of how much 'energy' needs to be about in order to be able to take that form?

I'd suggest at least a die of damage... or less with the ST's whim of course.

[Rorx]

I'd suggest at least a die of damage... or less with the ST's whim of course.

Would it have to be a damaging effect/amount? After all, it's not easy to get a damaging amount of light (laser generally damages through heat), nor indeed someones suggestion of darkness, I'm not aware of how much darkness you need to do a die of damage? ::biggrin ::sly

[Alex Green]

Would it have to be a damaging effect/amount? After all, it's not easy to get a damaging amount of light (laser generally damages through heat)...

If it's hot enough to hurt then that counts.

..., nor indeed someones suggestion of darkness, I'm not aware of how much darkness you need to do a die of damage? ::biggrin ::sly

Exactly. Darkness and most seriously insane stuff would need another power to create it first. But if he were attacked with a Q-Bolt:Darkness I could see it. Or if someone with that Bodymorph:Shadow touched him, he could do it.

[Rorx]

I suppose in that way, if you had enough dots in MC, you could copy anyones Bodymorph, although not any supporting powers they had bought in the same theme.

[Alex Green]

I suppose in that way, if you had enough dots in MC, you could copy anyones Bodymorph, although not any supporting powers they had bought in the same theme.

You could actually do them one better.

Diamond Jack has 5 dots in BM:Diamond, all Armor.

Chameleon Jill has 5 dots in MC. She could get 5 dots of Armor and 5 dots of Claws and... etc.

[Rorx]

You could actually do them one better.

Diamond Jack has 5 dots in BM:Diamond, all Armor.

Chameleon Jill has 5 dots in MC. She could get 5 dots of Armor and 5 dots of Claws and... etc.

Not by the MC in the Core rules, but I agree the house rules we are currently using would allow that.

[metaphysician]

Actually. . . huh, rules are vague, but it *seems* like there is no actual cap on the number of different abilities you can gain with Matter Chameleon. Each ability is capped based on your rating, granted, but nothing keeps you from mimicking five or six different abilities, all at five dots.