Aberrant RPG - Changes Novas Bring to Society

[Heru]

Whenever I get on a topic or setting I remain on it for a while with a lot of posts. This is another one of my topics.

Concept - Normal Aberrant setting with the standard backdrop of Adventure!. The future history of Trinity will be ignored - no mandatory Aberrant War, Chinese Ultimatum or rise of alien-empowered Psions. Indeed, some of the concept of the Teragen will alos be removed as they make wars betwen baseline and nova very possible. Maybe we can have Divis Mal beleive that only with novas and humans working in tandem could our species survive and dominate the universe. Right now is idelogy is of sepratism, maybe his ties to Max could change his mind and make him thing that there is one path and that humans need to go on.

Available Powers - Completely standard, though I am using the low low taint setting (I hate Taint).

Okay, with that said I can't help but notice that most superhero settings truly ignore that which superheroes can do. It becomes completely about the status quo rather than all the good one which superpowers can bring to society.

In this I want to ask the question of what differences do you think that novas can cause to society if the setting was to slowly move away from the modern hero concept and enter into a scifi sort of setting.

Baseline humanity must slowly come to accept novas as forces of good, or at least of forces of usefulness. New technolgocial develops and many new practices would result.

I would like others of this forum to try and assit me in coming up with all the ways that novas could cause change and alteration in society.

Remember sky is the limit for there is no restriction on the technological or social growth that could occur over time.

As seems to be my standard practice I will go over the powers in the core rulebook and present some ideas on how they could change a society (note those ideas I presented for Mega-Attributes still work).

Animal/Plant Mastery - In the use of animals for testing, the rearing of animals in farming, and the development of plants for agriculture.

Bioluminescence - light where tech light could cause problems.

Bodymorph - Let humanity travel to areas that was previosuly inacessible.

Clone - could aid in research and development

Cyberkinesis - Computer control and understandign would increase by leaps and bounds.

Elemental Anima - The world can be manipulated, reduces cost for construction and manufacutirng; mining might be easier. Same with Elemental Mastery

Empathic Manipulation - Understanding how people think could aid in psychology and psychotherapy

Entropy Control - Destroy buildings and equipment without using bombs or other such wide reaching devices.

ESP - far senses could revolunize so many areas

Gravity Control - gravity can be understood and modified to provide various effects

Healing - the best doctors would possess this power

Holo - entertainers and those wishing to communicate

Immobilize - non-damaging way of stoping criminals

Magnetic Mastery - our world is a mechanical one, this could aid in controlling, manipualting and creating such

Matter Creation - prodcue stuff without the need for manufacturing

Molecular Manipulation - micro control over objects; manufacturing and industry

Pretercognition - aid in choosing the smartest of decisions. Can see the past to learn about it and document it; history tool

Quantum Construct - tools and equipment 'magically' made

Telekinesis - control and direction at a distance; useful for secured buildings and operations. Bomb deactivation, etc.

Telepathy - mind-to-mind contact, a non-detectable form of communciation - an advanced phone system

Temporal Manipuatlion - could assist society in handling matters that are of immediate importance or that have a timelimit

Warp - Mass transit, who needs roads or spacevehicles when I can be here and then there; space industry, cargo transport, passenger movement

Weather Manipulation - control over the weather cna assit in crop growing, city festivals and events, water irrigation, etc

(I am still thinking about the only Mega-Attribute world, but the changes nvoas bring to socieites has always been with me - ever since I first began reading about the superhero theme.)

[Alex Green]

Ignore all of them. The biggest change in society is that novas quickly get all of the "winner take all" jobs.

Billion dollar law suit? You'd better have a nova lawyer, because the other side will. Yep, he'll charge several million bucks in legal fees, but so what.

CEO of a top company? Guess what, having a nova means you have a really high growth rate, going against one means you lose. Think Bill Gates vs. Netscape.

"And for the 4th year in a row, all 20 of the most highly paid movie stars were novas. Also for the 4th year in a row, 36 of the 40 most popular movies in the industry starred novas."

In other news, three quarters of all organ transplat surgeons have dropped out of the business and either retired or found other fields. Experts blame "The Cartel", the 36 nova healers in the United States who are repairing organs with a touch.

Oh, and Temporal Manip makes the old and rich into the young and well off.

And Weather Manip means no hurricanes.

[Heru]

Ignore all of them. The biggest change in society is that novas quickly get all of the "winner take all" jobs.

Billion dollar law suit? You'd better have a nova lawyer, because the other side will. Yep, he'll charge several million bucks in legal fees, but so what.

CEO of a top company? Guess what, having a nova means you have a really high growth rate, going against one means you lose. Think Bill Gates vs. Netscape.

"And for the 4th year in a row, all 20 of the most highly paid movie stars were novas. Also for the 4th year in a row, 36 of the 40 most popular movies in the industry starred novas."

In other news, three quarters of all organ transplat surgeons have dropped out of the business and either retired or found other fields. Experts blame "The Cartel", the 36 nova healers in the United States who are repairing organs with a touch.

Oh, and Temporal Manip makes the old and rich into the young and well off.

And Weather Manip means no hurricanes.

Thanks for the reponse, like in the other thread, I appreciate the thoughts, , feedback and comments.

Some novas would work in the more aid-fitting fields. Like I said, novas with the ability to see through stone could be used by companies as mining aids.

The problem is that their are only a couple of hundred thousand novas in a world population of over 4 billion.

Thats a lot of jobs that novas could not take over.

Some of this is not really bad. If you are a great actor and if everybody loves you you should get paid alot. Same for reseraceher or CEO.

Sports entertainment will have to be split along the lines of nova-baseline. I.e., no nova competes against a baseliner and visa versa. I know I would still see baseline sports competitions due to their local and common factor. The actual game kinda did this wit the Nova olympics.

Nothing wrong with no damaging hurricances as long as you make sure that the balancing aspect of our weather remains the same.

Not all people can be made young, but if ytou have the power might as well use it.

I was thinking htat society would change and grow and maybe and entirely new world order would come out of it. Hopefullyu, this would be a good world order.

[BlueNinja]

The problem is that their are only a couple of hundred thousand novas in a world population of over 4 billion.

Thats a lot of jobs that novas could not take over.

The problem isn't really how many jobs that novas take over and take away from baselines.

The problem is that those top 1% of the top 1%, the jobs that every person would love to have due to the money/influence/power involved, are going to go to novas. In the short term, this isn't going to cause any sort of problem - after all, the people in those jobs changes every dozen years or so anyway, as people die or fail. But in a century, or two on the outside, the industrialized world is going to be run by an oligarchy of nova-kind who are usually better on a bad day than the best baseline is at the top of their game. This is something you should take into account. Some novas are going to work to try to make this happen even faster.

As for actual power things ... the use of many powers is going to seriously limit companies in certain fields. Research, mostly, because hiring a nova to do something is bound to be cheaper than researching and developing a "regular" way to do it, especially when you're talking about things like weather prediction (and control), animal training, advances in computer technology, etc. This is going to alter economies. Some nova will probably come up with a way to start trading himself on the stock market - so when he has a bad day and botches a roll, this will cause a downswing in stocks. But given that the stock market will probably be controlled by Mega-Intelligent Financial Prodigies, it won't be a big one. ::laugh

[Heru]

The problem isn't really how many jobs that novas take over and take away from baselines.

The problem is that those top 1% of the top 1%, the jobs that every person would love to have due to the money/influence/power involved, are going to go to novas. In the short term, this isn't going to cause any sort of problem - after all, the people in those jobs changes every dozen years or so anyway, as people die or fail. But in a century, or two on the outside, the industrialized world is going to be run by an oligarchy of nova-kind who are usually better on a bad day than the best baseline is at the top of their game. This is something you should take into account. Some novas are going to work to try to make this happen even faster.

As for actual power things ... the use of many powers is going to seriously limit companies in certain fields. Research, mostly, because hiring a nova to do something is bound to be cheaper than researching and developing a "regular" way to do it, especially when you're talking about things like weather prediction (and control), animal training, advances in computer technology, etc. This is going to alter economies. Some nova will probably come up with a way to start trading himself on the stock market - so when he has a bad day and botches a roll, this will cause a downswing in stocks. But given that the stock market will probably be controlled by Mega-Intelligent Financial Prodigies, it won't be a big one. ::laugh

Right, great points, completely.

Actually, I have few comments on whaty you say as I agree with them. This is how things would work in the short run.

About companies not trying to reserach new thigns but just use a nova, the concept that there are only a few novas in a world of 4 billion could be enough tof an incentive. A nova cannot be everywhere or doing multiple things at the same time in multiple places (unless you use clone, but not all have that). Because of this some might take up the policy of using a nova, mimicing its power and releasing it to the public through soem sort of tech. Or even better, creating some sort of quantum device that uses nova powers, requires quantum, needs to be started up with a nova but then works all on its own.

Just a thought, but a nova could put himself on the stock market by making himself his own company. This would enable him to gain the benefits and protect agains tsome of the drawbacks of using his powers.

The oligarchy of nova-kind would probably be the end result of this sort of world, if the social situation remained the same. But I figured that because of Mega-Mental novas some new method of social operation will eventually be developed. Say, a society in which it is now what you have that coughts but what you do with it to aid the greater society. And because novas have so much more in terms of potential they need to do so much more to get recogniztion. It could be something like by doing more for the state (which means the people) you could gain another name added on.

This might occur for various reasons but in the end it would have to happen with a change in how modern society operates. Society could stil be capitalist but it would ahve to morph into a everybody for everybody sort of deal rather than an I sort of deal.

A number of events could cause this, such as an alien attack or arrival. The development of some Aberrants and the union of Novas against them. The manipulations of highly powerful and mighty novas (can you imagine what Divis Mal could do if he felt that the devleopment of a new society in which all [novas and baselines] worked together for the glory of ALL). Other reasons might be a nova with pretercognition (or many of them) could start informing the people of a great darkness that is growing in the future and only through unity or whatnot coudl humanity hope to strive against it.

I find that this is a perfect opportunity for a metaplot. You decide a long range goal (the transformation of world society into some captialist democracy in which everybody works to better society [and gain their thrid or more names]).

At the same time some sort of place must be put into it to allow for players to have their powers in the game. They could be Physical novas trying to forcibly bring nations into the fold, or fight against Alien or Aberrant threats; Mental novas creating new tools and sciences to better thr world, as well as new policies; Social novas trying to convert the masses into this new 'utopia' sort of society.

It works if that is the sort of thing you like. Which is something I really like.

[Alex Green]

1% of 1% is only 1-10,000. Novas are rarer than that...

But this might not matter. Say there's only 5 nova lawyers in the US, those 5 will see their rates ski-rocket while the previous top dogs go way down. Why? Because those 5 can beat anyone who isn't of those 5.

RE: The top 1% of 1% controlling everything.

Not sure this is true. The same argument could be made now, but the level of taxes the rich pays keeps going up, while the level the poor pays keeps going down.

[Heru]

1% of 1% is only 1-10,000. Novas are rarer than that...

But this might not matter. Say there's only 5 nova lawyers in the US, those 5 will see their rates ski-rocket while the previous top dogs go way down. Why? Because those 5 can beat anyone who isn't of those 5.

RE: The top 1% of 1% controlling everything.

Not sure this is true. The same argument could be made now, but the level of taxes the rich pays keeps going up, while the level the poor pays keeps going down.

Your right about the population. According to the official timeline there is roughly 6,000 in 2007. I was going with the numbers 1 nova in 10,000 baselines or 1 nova in 20,000. I was probably using some other setting that I was reading recently. Those are the numbers that I prefer, rather than the 6,000 that is canon, oh well.

If there were 5 nova lawyers I figure that they would be prohibited from going against anybody but each other. That way its slightly fare. I mean some would join the prosecutors office and others would join the defendents side. So, if they are competing against each other its still epic but no longer unbalanced. hehe. our right that everybody would want those five, but since there are only 5 not is not really possible.

Personally, I don't feel that the argument of the real world rich vs the real world poor is that fair. I mean novas are lightyears ahead of baselines, while the rich are only money ahead of the poor. Its still possible for a poor man to win against a rich man. In a one on one compettion no baseline will win against a nova.

I gotta ask, what do you (and anybody reading this thread) think about the idea that I posted in my previous post about a future global government.

[Alex Green]

If there were 5 nova lawyers I figure that they would be prohibited from going against anybody but each other.

I'm not sure how, or even why, you could pass a law like that. Ignoring that it's probably unconstitutional, why would you want to prevent the best lawyers from practicing their trade? Are we going to do the same for doctors? Politicians?

RE: Novas

I think it's 8000 or so in 2008 and 10k or so in 2010 or 2012 or something.

RE: 1-10,000

That's... 5 Billion => 500,000 novas.

OK, I take back what I said about them not controlling the planet. With that many novas you are basically talking about South Africa at it's worst. The novas can, and do control everything. If Warp is rare (it isn't) then you probably still have 5k novas who can warp. Ditto Temporal Manip, so now it's actually possible to keep most of the really rich, young as well.

Entire job classes will only have novas.

[Heru]

I'm not sure how, or even why, you could pass a law like that. Ignoring that it's probably unconstitutional, why would you want to prevent the best lawyers from practicing their trade? Are we going to do the same for doctors? Politicians?

RE: Novas

I think it's 8000 or so in 2008 and 10k or so in 2010 or 2012 or something.

RE: 1-10,000

That's... 5 Billion => 500,000 novas.

OK, I take back what I said about them not controlling the planet. With that many novas you are basically talking about South Africa at it's worst. The novas can, and do control everything. If Warp is rare (it isn't) then you probably still have 5k novas who can warp. Ditto Temporal Manip, so now it's actually possible to keep most of the really rich, young as well.

Entire job classes will only have novas.

I agree really, I was just trying to come up with an argument why such a thing cannot happen. I mean a Mega-Social and Mega-Mental nova can make a guilty person sound so perfect that everybody would beleive that their shit don't stink.

About numbers, I really like large numbers of novas. I feel that eventually all of humanity would have the potential, but until then I want it to be a smuch as possible. And 500,000 is not that much when you compare it to the throng of baselines.

The think is they would be superiror to normal baselines. And its not that baselines don't matter, its that those ruling would be so much better than them.

Because I don't want it to be a rule by the few, I am going to try and bring about the transformation (as I said before) into a world-spanning democratic society where one uses their gift to better the world.

It might be an outgrowth of the UN and a way fro the UN to gain more power. Maybe they have some groups of novas working for them and them alone that can aid in the development of a more progressive and powerful government.

Novas might be entire job classes, but they would need assistants and whatnot, posistions available to the baseline majority.

Actually, the game Exalted is a perfect example of this. In the First Age there were around 300 Solar Exalted and they ruled everything through the use of their powers. Beneath them were the Terrestrial Exalted adn the half-castes. Such a concept could be mimicked in this setting.

[Alex Green]

I agree really, I was just trying to come up with an argument why such a thing cannot happen. I mean a Mega-Social and Mega-Mental nova can make a guilty person sound so perfect that everybody would beleive that their shit don't stink.

A reason why? How about Money.

Criminal cases simply don't involve that much money, most criminals are poor, DA types are poorly paid.

The big money is in a Billion-plus dollar company sueing another.

[metaphysician]

Thats not touching the matter of how "undue influence" laws would adapt to the presence of novas.

There are times when I'm glad I play in an ancient setting. "Your a god, they are mortals, sometimes punkings occur." It simplifies things.

[Heru]

A reason why? How about Money.

Criminal cases simply don't involve that much money, most criminals are poor, DA types are poorly paid.

The big money is in a Billion-plus dollar company sueing another.

Right, and that would be a very lucritive case to serve on. As would actually making laws.

Thinking about it I am surprised that more novas don't run for public office. They would probably have a great chance of winning.

Oh, right, the irrational, overblown fear the baselines have in the setting.

Thats not touching the matter of how "undue influence" laws would adapt to the presence of novas.

There are times when I'm glad I play in an ancient setting. "Your a god, they are mortals, sometimes punkings occur." It simplifies things.

Honestly, I think that novas would find themselves limited due to the undue influence laws. They are quite forcibly changing the mind of the people, in ways that they can't truly resist.

Yeah, I have to agree with you about the ancient setting. In those periods those that have the power are only natually assumed to be able to rule as well. It makes it so much easier.

Like I've said before I like your ancient setting, though I wish it was taking place in more historic times like Rome. That would be an awesome thing to see. (If you can't tell, I really like Rome. )

[Alex Green]

Honestly, I think that novas would find themselves limited due to the undue influence laws. They are quite forcibly changing the mind of the people, in ways that they can't truly resist.

The problem isn't, "can't resist", because some people can resist them under some circumstances. The problem is "can't describe". That makes it very difficult to pass a law about it. Worse would be trying to put into legal terms someone being "too beautiful" or "too likeable". Would Anna Smith have been against the law?

The various political types trying to craft this don't have access to the core hand book.

[Heru]

The problem isn't, "can't resist", because some people can resist them under some circumstances. The problem is "can't describe". That makes it very difficult to pass a law about it. Worse would be trying to put into legal terms someone being "too beautiful" or "too likeable". Would Anna Smith have been against the law?

The various political types trying to craft this don't have access to the core hand book.

In game terms baselines with 5 dots in a certain Attribute may utilize a willpower point to resist a nova with an enhancement. Most average baselines don't have five dots in an Attribute as that means they are the best of the best amongst human normals. You can't resist a Mega-Attribute any other way, and in fact, some enhancements state that if you do not have the Mega-Attribute no resistance is possible. Of course, this doesn't cover all possibilities, as some enhancements allow baselines to technically resist - though very very few have any hope of resisting. (To get my emotions down as I write this, I feel that this is necessary.)

Your completely right about the lawers not having the core book (which, by the way, is something alot of people forget, me included sometimes). Its a really good point, quite useful as well.

But its like salesmen law in which I am able to return an item that I bought up a certain time period after the salesmen leaves my door. The concept is that its sometimes hard to say no to a person when their there, but that after they leave you might want to say no.

In a society when everbody tries their best their wouldn't be a law restricting what lawyers can and can't do or be (i.e., the powers they have). But I figure that in the world of Aberrant some fears would nescitate a restriction on who can serve in various posistions.

You know, I just thought, but what would happen if an already high political indivdual erupted one day and became a nova. Say the President (for example). that would be an interesting change as nothing in the Constitution states that novas cannot be the President. They couldn't be impeched, so you then have a highly powerful indivdual who is probably going to fight for nova rights. This could be the same if a major talk-show host (say somebody on the level of Oprah) erupted.

hmm, interesting thought. This is something that I gotta think about.

[Alex Green]

But its like salesmen law in which I am able to return an item that I bought up a certain time period after the salesmen leaves my door. The concept is that its sometimes hard to say no to a person when their there, but that after they leave you might want to say no.

That's fine for high presure sales, for a guy to say he really didn't mean to sleep with that woman is something else.

In a society when everbody tries their best their wouldn't be a law restricting what lawyers can and can't do or be (i.e., the powers they have). But I figure that in the world of Aberrant some fears would nescitate a restriction on who can serve in various posistions.

Meaning that some people are simply too good at the job.

We already have some of that, Vegas bans people because they are too good at gamboling. But that's private industry. The Government (i.e. the army) does something similar with gays... but it's a very dangerous and slippery slope to say novas can't do things simply because they are novas. It's pretty openly racist and probably eliminates the most qualitifed people from having the job.

[Heru]

That's fine for high presure sales, for a guy to say he really didn't mean to sleep with that woman is something else.

Meaning that some people are simply too good at the job.

We already have some of that, Vegas bans people because they are too good at gamboling. But that's private industry. The Government (i.e. the army) does something similar with gays... but it's a very dangerous and slippery slope to say novas can't do things simply because they are novas. It's pretty openly racist and probably eliminates the most qualitifed people from having the job.

Personally, a Mega-Social character can make a man whose totally faithful to his wife sleep with her. This is because even with the expenditure of Willpower the Mega-Social nova will have so many more dice.

Personally, I feel that if this happens than it is not truly the fault of the baseline, for he had not real expectation of success in resistance. No matter how much he might have wanted to.

About the banning of novas in jobs, I wish that novas in the official setting would grow a backbone and fight for what they wanted - for their equality. I'm not talking militarily or physically, but rather socially and mentally. If they just said enough is enough, we are not going to take this any more and then petitioned the govenrment for change. Well, it would be hard for the government to change.

Actually, it is somewhat mentioned in the setting. Because a number of gay men and women have erupted as novas the violence and hatred against them has been slightly cooled. These gay novas (whose biggest support is Divis Mal and his -male- lover himself) are not to be taken lightly or though to be weak. So some changes are occuring in this.

But not enough for my taste for I wish more Mega-Social and Mega-Mental novas began using their powers to change the world. It seems that only the Mega-Physical novas do that.

I think it would have been more interesting if the Null Manifesto was a document declaring that novas needed to utilize their powers to make sure their place in society was assured. This would have caused a number of changes and I feel would have made the setting so much more better. Of course that was impossible because the timeline had to lead the world toward war and chaos. Only through that could they make Trinity exist. This is one of the most sad and pittying aspects of this game genra (I like Trinity as a stand alone game, I just despise how it steps on the back of Aberrant).

(Just wanted to say I fight it very much awe-inspiring that White Wolf would have made their biggest power in the entire setting a gay man. I find this to be one of the most liberating aspects of White Wolf, they are not afraid to utilize such character concepts. Go them. )

[BlueNinja]

Personally, a Mega-Social character can make a man whose totally faithful to his wife sleep with her. This is because even with the expenditure of Willpower the Mega-Social nova will have so many more dice.

Personally, I feel that if this happens than it is not truly the fault of the baseline, for he had not real expectation of success in resistance. No matter how much he might have wanted to.

Any baseline can have the Devotion and Iron Will merits listed in the APG. Iron Will, more than Devotion, is one of those things that will let the truly outstanding baselines stand up to novas - but even with Devotion (a mere +2 difficulty) the nova in question is probably going to have to work for it. Also, I (as GM) usually apply difficulties for situations like that, without informing the seducing PC of what it is.

But not enough for my taste for I wish more Mega-Social and Mega-Mental novas began using their powers to change the world. It seems that only the Mega-Physical novas do that.

They don't? Let's see.

Russia is run by a Mega-Int nova, with massive number-crunching and financial wizardry at his fingertips, turning the old Soviet block back into an economic power to be reckoned with.

The US is seeing Randall Portman running for office - and despite his having barely any Mega-Socials, the canon is for him to win. Most Mega-Socials are too busy changing the face of world culture to what they want it to be to worry about mere political power.

Hypercombustion engine. Don't tell me you really think that an engine that can get 250 mpg would not revolutionize the global economy in a number of ways.

Ditto Vitrium glass (as noted in Year One, I think). Super-strong building material that's as cheap as steel and translucent.

The Daedalus Society. In 2008, they don't have a whole lot of novas who can go into space. But give them someone like Jacques Cousteau to go shoot films about what goes on under the Jupiter clouds, etc, and that'll change things real fast. By 2015, IIRC, the Daedalus League is setting up a permanent base on the moon.

But I think the main reason that the world has not changed faster than this is because most of the top Mega-Int and Mega-Manip novas realize that human minds are only capable of changing a certain amount, and don't want to create a backlash against them.

(I like Trinity as a stand alone game, I just despise how it steps on the back of Aberrant).

You are aware that Trinity was published first, and Aberrant came about because people wondered what the world was like at its height before the Aberrant War.

(Just wanted to say I fight it very much awe-inspiring that White Wolf would have made their biggest power in the entire setting a gay man. I find this to be one of the most liberating aspects of White Wolf, they are not afraid to utilize such character concepts. Go them. )

Of course, some people will view Divis as being the "bad guy" because he's gay, not in spite of it. But in the grand sceme of the game, his sexuality is a non-issue.

[Heru]

Any baseline can have the Devotion and Iron Will merits listed in the APG. Iron Will, more than Devotion, is one of those things that will let the truly outstanding baselines stand up to novas - but even with Devotion (a mere +2 difficulty) the nova in question is probably going to have to work for it. Also, I (as GM) usually apply difficulties for situations like that, without informing the seducing PC of what it is.

But this is definitly not the average Joe on the street.

Look, I agree with you that there will be baselines that can resist some of the more basic feats of novas. But at higher levels not even the most powerful baseline could truly resist. I am talking Q6+ levels here.

A +2 Difficulty can be reduced by the Mega-Manipulation dice that a Nova might have (and a nova with a Mega-Manipulation of 3 can make it a basic roll and then has an extra die left over. That is pretty good, and it presents a pretty high chance of success.

I'm pretty much just saying that if a nova really and truly wants something than nothing baseline can stop him.

They don't? Let's see.

-Snip-

It still doesn't get as much press as the physcial actions of the physical novas. This might seem like I am grasping at straws (and maybe I am) but I just feel that so much more could happen if the Mega-Social and Mega-Mental novas were truly up to their challenge.

Some of this is really really great, but in the end its all for nought. And, I guess that is what bugs me. See, no matter how much good press they get at first the end result is that they will fall and a gigantic war and chaos will result.

I think if the US has a nova president so much more should have changed in the world. We would now be a nation that would become much more pro-nova in our policies and behaviors. This sort of event should have caused a much better world and should have made baselines awaken to realize that having novas is actually a good think and not a bad thing. Too bad a lot of bad things eventually happen that breaks this view and leads to war.

Your completely right, having the clouds of Jupiter being videotaped will cause people to want to go their and see it for themselves. This would result in a increase in space exploration and the development of humanity into a solar and eventually stellar species. Of course the Aberrant Wars causes a stop to that for decades.

Your last point, about humans not being able to comprehend at really high levels of change, is a good point. And this does make sense. See, the problem is that time should not truly be of an issue because many of the novas who live now will still be here (if wars did not break out) decades and centuries hence. But us, as narrators and setting creators, are limited to the canon events of the Aberrant Wars. And thus not much can actually happen in the long run. I just find that really really sad.

You are aware that Trinity was published first, and Aberrant came about because people wondered what the world was like at its height before the Aberrant War.

I was not aware that Aberrant came out second. That still changes nothing about what I am saying.

Its all fine having the back history of Trinity be about these evil disgusting mutants called aberrants that almost destroyed the world before China had its Ultimatum. That is all well and good cause it does not truly affect another story line.

But my problem comes in when they made Aberrant (which just by calling the game Aberrant and not Nova! shows the concept) and were forced to make events lead up to the Aberrant War. This is despite the fact that the canon has the year at 1998. We already know that things are going to get worse and worse and eventually lead to novas becoming tainted and evil.

Because of that the game Aberrant is restricted in where it can go and what can happen. Other games are not similarly restricted, for they allow the players nad indivdual GMs develop whats going to happen.

Not even Adventure! was simiarly that way because their were decades between the ending of the gameline directly and Aberrant begining. These are decades in which we actually have no clue on what happens - the events are not truly written. This cannot be said to be the same with Aberrant.

Divis Mal snip

See the thing for me is that him being gay matter so little (just like you said) and the writers still decided to make him gay. That, to me, is the most awesome aspect of this guys character. As a gay man myself this touches home and makes this game line one of my most favorites (and I have persued dozens, if not hundreds, of other gamelines by other companies).

Great post, glad that you did it (I know that I keep saying it, but I mean it). Interesting ideas and quite useful in coming up with ideas that could lead novas to changing the world.

[metaphysician]

I think you may be exaggerating the potency of nova vs baseline attribute/ability conflict. Namely, the "must have 5 dots and spend willpower to resist" rule only applies for 'pure' attribute vs attribute contests. Pretty much anything involving an ability, the contest is still rolled. Which means, a baseline has alot better chance of winning, especially if the baseline is an expert and the nova isn't. It also means situational modifiers are in play, which can potentially shift things around massively ( sure, the Hotshot Nova Lawyer has a couple dots of Mega Int. . . but his world class baseline competitor has an entire law firm worth of personnel to back him, plus extant Contacts and Influences to further grease the wheels; thats worth quite a few extra dice ).

[BlueNinja]

Look, I agree with you that there will be baselines that can resist some of the more basic feats of novas. But at higher levels not even the most powerful baseline could truly resist. I am talking Q6+ levels here.

A Q6 nova can pwn anybody with their powers, nova or baseline. 99% of novas are not Q6+, so I don't usually discuss things that only work if you're Q6+.

A +2 Difficulty can be reduced by the Mega-Manipulation dice that a Nova might have (and a nova with a Mega-Manipulation of 3 can make it a basic roll and then has an extra die left over. That is pretty good, and it presents a pretty high chance of success.

I'm pretty much just saying that if a nova really and truly wants something than nothing baseline can stop him.

It's difficult for your Joe Baseline to stop them, yes. This is why you have the Directive (to cite one example) who train their asses off and still have to be very careful.

It still doesn't get as much press as the physcial actions of the physical novas. This might seem like I am grasping at straws (and maybe I am) but I just feel that so much more could happen if the Mega-Social and Mega-Mental novas were truly up to their challenge.

The physical stuff gets more press because it's flashy eye candy, not because it's more important. Fame does not directly correlate into power in the real world.

I think if the US has a nova president so much more should have changed in the world. We would now be a nation that would become much more pro-nova in our policies and behaviors. This sort of event should have caused a much better world and should have made baselines awaken to realize that having novas is actually a good think and not a bad thing. Too bad a lot of bad things eventually happen that breaks this view and leads to war.

Ok, let's say you've put a Mega-Social, Mega-Int nova as pres of the US. Let's even be generous and say he got there with no taint at all. But somewhere out there in the world are other Mega-Social, Mega-Int novas, who are Tainted up, and slowly progressing that way. This, eventually, is what causes the Aberrant War - not novas existing, but novas who don't want to take "time off" from their powers to maintain their sanity.

But my problem comes in when they made Aberrant (which just by calling the game Aberrant and not Nova! shows the concept) and were forced to make events lead up to the Aberrant War. This is despite the fact that the canon has the year at 1998. We already know that things are going to get worse and worse and eventually lead to novas becoming tainted and evil.

Because of that the game Aberrant is restricted in where it can go and what can happen. Other games are not similarly restricted, for they allow the players nad indivdual GMs develop whats going to happen.

So, as GM, rule out Trinity material as canon and run your game that way. Some of here have already done these kinds of thought exercises. ::smile But most of us like the fact that reaching for higher levels of power forces you to give up your humanity, your sanity, and eventually your playability. Not only does it hold back the munchkins, but it's a very sobering thing to consider in character after your nova has been around a while.

To paraphrase a quote from the Anita Blake series, the decision to sell a tiny piece of your soul to stop some monster (or achieve your big objective) is easy. But there are a lot more monsters than there are pieces of your soul.

[Heru]

Metaphysician,

Your right, I did forget that the rule of willpower use was only on direct contests of Attributes. So on that I do concede that baselines might have a great change of winning than I orgionally thought.

Still, a baseline has a max of Attribute plus Ability (5 + 5 = 10 max for baselines) to any roll while a nova has access to Attribute + Mega-Attribute + Enhancements (if any are applicable) + Ability (5 + 5 + ? + 5 = 15+, up to Q5) to any roll. Thats a huge difference of dice pool considering that the Mega-Attributes roll as 2 successes (or 3) or can be utilized to reduce penalties and difficulties.

BlueNinja,

All in all then, it seems we are at an impasse. What we want from the game are two completely different things. Which is fine, as there is no one way to play the game. (There is no one way to rule them all, ::biggrin )

(And as a note because emotions don't carry over that well over the internet - I am not angry or anything, in fact I am happy that responses have actually been posted.)

I dislike the concept of flawed heroes. In fact, I down right hate it with a passion. I do not feel the need for giving up humanity or making sacrifices to attain higher levels of power. Neither the Inspired of Adventure! or the Psions of Trinity have to do it, so why do the Novas of Aberrant.

In fact, I have decided to reduce Taint in my game. I hate it and thus it has no major place in anything I run beyond mere background effect. I am also all for the fact that Node is an aspect of the spirit or that the M-R cells are now divided throughout the brain rather than concentrated in one area.

Its funny on what I think of the Directive. It is a great multionational attempt at unified organizational structures, and yet at the same time I dispise what it does. I wish it did not have to for I wish that White Wold did not make Project Utopia (or at least its secret brother) into an enemy. Oh well, not much I can do except remove it. ::biggrin

I understand your point and I agree with it in relation to the canon setting. My only problem is that I dislike the premise of it. I do not feel that their has to be 100 'bad' selfish novas for every 1 good nova. Maybe I am too much of an optimist but I feel that more unity would have developed or at least more of the novas coming together and saying "we are here, we are not going away, and now governments of the world treat us with the respect due to our quantum-charged natures." That could never happen with the metaplot of the Aberrant War always on our mind about the future.

Its so easy to make broad statements of change and modificiation. I do that all the time when I make a setting. What I had hoped to achieve by posting in this thread was some ideas on how to make it more of what I want. I want the novas ruling the world - or at least I want them changing it for the betterment of all peoples. I can do this alone, but I felt that Eon with its large numbers of members could have come up with ideas a little bit a time ot make this attempt both more interesting and easy.

And while my point has succeeded it hasn't progressed as much as I wished it had. It has become more of how people disagree with what I am doing and feel to point out how the official setting does what I want it to do. And while I realize that this is indeed correct it hasn't done it to my satisfication. And I know, for a fact, that their must be others who agree with me. I just had hopes on finding them here in larger quantities. ::unsure

I didn't realize I typed so much until I checked post length and realized I had gone over. ::biggrin

A number of thoughts and questions that I had but don't want to post in its own thread. ::biggrin They are all related to the topic at hand.

A) Is Mega-Attributes an in-game phenonemon or is it something only players know. I mean, in the game do news agencies post about how the newest Mega-Mental (or even more exact - a Mega-Intelligent or Mega-Manipulation) nova is changing the world.

The Stalwart Inspired of Adventure! channel Quantum as part of their Telluric energy manipulation. Since Stalwarts are just less powerful Novas this has caused me to think about the differences. Beyond the fac that the Knacks the Stalwarts use are closer to enhancements than powers, they have no node and do not worry about Taint. I was thinking that maybe an Inspired who progresses to become a nova might be naturally 'born' with some resistance to Taint acculumation or might be considered 2nd-gen nova for processes of development. This could help satisfy the reason for Divis Mal's immense power growth - he doesn't have to worry about Taint as much as the next nova. Not all would like this, of course, but I find it intriguing and a useful thought.

C) I have been thinking about a modified Null Manifesto. How does this work as far as a timeline blurb:

The nova now known as Divis Mal issues the Null Manifesto in a broadcast overriding global communications. The edict claims that novas must utilize the gifts for the betterment of both the human species and of Earth. The provisions of the Null Manifesto state that novas must be given some latitude in how and when they can operate. That because of their great potential they must be allowed to use them without fear that governments will prosecute them the same way they prosecute baselines. The example the Null Manifesto uses is the concept of a nova using his power to save the lives of passengers on a city buss by using the gate of a private citizen. The nova should not be held responsible for his actions saved lives. In addition, the Manifesto goes on to say, that due their world spanning abilities all novas should only be treated as citizens of the world and not as residents of any one polity. That they should be given diplomatic privileges equaling that of governments and not that of single people.

A high nova group calling itself the Teragen endorses the Null Manifesto and renounces all ties to individual government bodies, declaring themselves citizens of the world. Project Utopia comes out in support of the statement that novas are citizens of the world, though they do speak out against some of the more radical positions of the Teragen. In a public speech to the world, Utopia promises to aid the world as a whole and not favor any one country or political faction. Sales of Teragen-specific merchandise skyrocket, particularly among the First World 18–35 demographic.

[astronomer]

Human nature being what it is, adding superpowers to the average person is not going to make him good or evil. It will accentuate his nature. Mother Theresa uses them to do more good, Hannibal Lector for more evil, and Joe Sixpack to make his life easier/better. People tend to fear/hate those that are different, and novas are way different in major ways. Novas' easily-demonstrated superiority in their fields will breed resentment (few love F. Lee Bailey when he steamrollers them). While one person might not react so badly, taken as a group the tendency to react as a mob becomes dominant (see history books for persecution of any numbers of groups for all manner of reasons, logical or not). If Superman(or equivalent) existed, I'd be OK with him, but his superhuman level of moral goodness is damned rare. Lacking that .......

[SkyLion]

Welcome Astronemer! You are member # 1970....'twas a good year! ::happy

[Alex Green]

WELCOME ASTRONOMER!!! (Are you a Wildcards fan?)

[metaphysician]

WELCOME ASTRONOMER!!! (Are you a Wildcards fan?)

I hope not, because this board doesn't need to be consumed by bugs.

[astronomer]

I do like Wildcards a lot, and it shows one view of how nova-like individuals can affect society and be treated by it, for good or ill. I'm somewhat new to forum posting, so please forgive any clumsiness on my part. Currently, I'm cruising Eon (obviously) and nprime, which seem to be the only active sites. Cthec has morphed into a Wiki project, and I'm watching that to see how it goes.

[Heru]

Human nature being what it is, adding superpowers to the average person is not going to make him good or evil. It will accentuate his nature. Mother Theresa uses them to do more good, Hannibal Lector for more evil, and Joe Sixpack to make his life easier/better. People tend to fear/hate those that are different, and novas are way different in major ways. Novas' easily-demonstrated superiority in their fields will breed resentment (few love F. Lee Bailey when he steamrollers them). While one person might not react so badly, taken as a group the tendency to react as a mob becomes dominant (see history books for persecution of any numbers of groups for all manner of reasons, logical or not). If Superman(or equivalent) existed, I'd be OK with him, but his superhuman level of moral goodness is damned rare. Lacking that .......

This is all good points, and I am glad that you have mentioned them. This is not me just being politic, I mean it. They are interesting looks into what humans would do if they got powers.

I guess my biggest problem with this conceptually (in an in-game sense) is that I am a big fan of the Exalted game concept. In that game superhumans (the Exalted) were created by the gods to rule over creation (after a little war, but htat matters little. ::biggrin). Becuase of their power and might they created a world-spanning government and developed a high level of techno-magic.

They actually utilized their powers for societal advancement - well, until they got corrupted by the Great Curse, their own form of Taint.

To me, there is nothing more awesome than the global setting of a world-spanning government with high levels of technology (even more cool if its techno-magic) and the loyal services of a group of superhuman characters.

This was the sort of thing that I was looking for. Ideas on how to shift the Aberrant setting into a modern day futuristic society that reached a period of glory days.

I had some ideas on how this could be done but I wanted some advise and suggesstions by other members of this forum. This was why, in the first place, I posted my thoughts and comments here.

This is not to say that I am ignoring your advise and suggesstions. The utilization of radicals in the metaplot could in fact help bring about the new world order that I envision. Its just the radicals would have to be curtailed from ever becoming the majority or causing the entire society to reach toward war and collapse. Actually, if the war and collapse can lead to the sort of glory days that I wish for in this setting, then I would use that as well.

I also completely agree with everything you say. This is why I would like to come up with some way to change the way society works (withotu changing human nature too much) so that a glorious golden age of plenty and advancement and expansion can occur. I actually comment on creating a global society where serving the masses the best you can is considered the noblest pursuit.

I hope that in the rambling of this post the point I am trying to make comes out loud and clear.

Oh, and welcome to Eon.

[Heru]

After soem thinking I have come up with this. What do you guys think. Any constructive critism or comments.

o A Mega-Mental nova discovers an underlying pattern in the layout of manfiesting quantum energy - in this case the Bioluminescence power. After months of work he manages to implant this pattern into a physical object and creats what, he calls, a Quantum-Charged Lattice Device (QCLD).

o A group of powerful nova-businessmen unite to form Quanic Dynamics. The first globabl nova company dedicated to researching the formula underlying the science of QCLD.

o A year after operation Quanic Dynamics begins selling both their Bioluminesnce Globes (Glowbulbs) and a new device known as a Heat Exchanger (which utilises the Alter Temperature technique to produce an completely perfect temperature). These devises have an inborn battery of roughly 5 points of quantum energy and the capaility of recharge. They become immensly popular as low-cost, no-maintenance, no-power alternatives to lightbulbs and heating systems. The public begins calling these devices Quanics after the producer.

o This is a long term process but eventually, all regions of the Earth are brought up to First Nation status. Poverty and hunger is removed due to the growing bounty produced by the nova sponosred agencies and operations.

o During this time, due to the opulance and the growing prosperity, a change forms that makes the highest form of power to be the power presented by working for the greater good of society. It is during this time that a new policy of granting out third and fourth names to those who have done some achievement begins. Even novas must accompolish something spectatcular for them to recieve their third name.

o Following the call of the Teragen Political Society a great percentage of novas come together and form the United Nova Deliberative, a world agency dedicated to providing a way for all novas to speak out on world issues.

o Though a somewhat powerless body at first, in concert with the United Nations and Project Utopia, the UND starts gaining more and more power. They gain so much power that by the time of the Green Crisis and the Chromatic Invasion, they are able to step in and halt the global crisis. In the process they merge the various international organisations to form the first world government - The United Alliance.

o To statisfy baselines that they are not being targeted for imperial persuecution the Human Concord is established as a voice for debate and discussion. Eventually, the Human Concord and the Nova Deliberative (which were always a part of the same broad organization) merge to form the Central Deliberative, a world-spanning democatic body open to both nova and baseline representation.

Time Periods

Inspired Age - This is the Adventure! backstory.

Early Nova Age - This is the nova age as seen in the official canon history of Aberrant. A number of events do not occur in this backstory.

Middle Nova Age - This is the time period with increasing nova dominance of Earth.

Late Nova Age - The formation of the first world government occurs during this period. Novas directly rule Earth as members of the United Nova Deliberative.

Unity Era - The Deliberative and the Concord merge to create the Central Deliberative. Humanity begins its first true Golden Age.

[astronomer]

Exalted was sort of a benevolent dictatorship a la Eden in Trinity. You could have that nova-style, with novas inevitably rising to the top over time, advised by wise/gifted humans. Or an evil tyranny, but that's another campaign ...

[Heru]

Exalted was sort of a benevolent dictatorship a la Eden in Trinity. You could have that nova-style, with novas inevitably rising to the top over time, advised by wise/gifted humans. Or an evil tyranny, but that's another campaign ...

I would so love to be able to use the concept of Eden in my games. And while I have some basic understanding of it, I lack the book that describes it in detail. While I eventually plan on buying and downloading it from drivethrustuff.com, that will have to be a while from now. Mores the pitty, as it really really is a cool concept.

[Blue Thunder]

Eden is boring. Seriously. The idea of a peaceful nova society sounds good and all, and makes for a good goal for players in a campaign, but why the hell would you want to roleplay it? Games need conflicts and powerful enemies and moral issues and good vs evil and wrong vs right and all the gray areas in between and all that jazz. Eden has none of those, because its basically a utopia, and utopias are terrible to roleplay in unless they're being threatened or are decaying from within. All of the conflict for Eden was done away with when the colonists left Earth, and any problems are inane, day-to-day things like a petty argument here or simple disagreement there. The Colony's forces haven't attacked the planet, Earth rarely ever sends diplomats or psions, and only the Upeo trust them so they don't get much outside contact.

Like I said...boring to roleplay. Stellar Frontier details Eden, but there actually isn't much to say about it. They're a group of sane and powerful novas that rule their world benevelontly, and are loved by their baseline worshipers. Stellar Frontier is more valuable for it's material on KLG and the other colony worlds (aside from Averiguas, which is dreadfully uninteresting in every possible way) and for the kick-ass teleporting powers and information on the Upeo.

[metaphysician]

Basically the case, yes. Which just means you need somebody to declare war on Eden. ::wink

Astronomer- If you want an example of benevolent nova society, check the Ancient Aberrant thread. Thera pretty much was designed to be just that. And it avoids the lack-of-conflict problem by having a powerful external enemy. . .

[astronomer]

Since Apollo Milliken helps out Karoo colony and the Edenites are thinking about helping to kick Kali and Yog-Death out of town, there is the possibility to get dragged into conflict (Eden goes to war!). Being peaceful and idyllic is easy when you're isolated, not so easy when you're interactive. I'll check out Ancient Aberrant!

[Heru]

Blue Thunder,

I'm somewhat sorry to say this, but I must say that I disagree. The concept of a peaceful nova society that is in the midst of a golden age sounds really cool to me. In fact its sounds heavenly and something that I would want to create.

I make settings for fun, and I must say that such a setting can still have a lot of things going for it. Internal intrigue, internal poltiics and development, outside exploration, outside manipulation, defense against enemies, etc. All sorts of things that a player might want to do if they are playing in an Eden game.

I guess I should state that I disagree with you on what makes a game fun. I do agree that having powerful enemies is good and intriguing, but moral issues and whatnot hold no interest for me. Just like games that have personal horror or those that are designed for characters who cannot accept what they are, I hate those games. I want powerful characters who enjoy being what they are and who use their power to the utmost.

None of this whiny little emo bullshit that alot of games (and White Wolf games in particular) seem to have.

So while I appreciate your comments, I gotta say they are entirely opposite of what I enjoy in a game. I guess that can explain why I did not get that much support or ideas for what I want, the majority of those on the site agree with your take and disagree with mine. Thats okay, I'll keep on doing whats fun for me.

Metaphysician,

Having an outside threat declare war on Eden could be quite fun and interesting to see. It will allow Eden to use its power and might without having to worry about internal collapse and whatnot. I definitly do not want to see Eden collapse as that will prove that in the official Trinity Universe that novas are evil bad weak things.

I hate that concept.

Astronomer,

A culture can be highly peaceful and idyllic, internally, and with their own people. Outsiders can see what happens when you piss off a nova. Mayhem will ensure.

[BlueNinja]

I'm somewhat sorry to say this, but I must say that I disagree. The concept of a peaceful nova society that is in the midst of a golden age sounds really cool to me. In fact its sounds heavenly and something that I would want to create.

I make settings for fun, and I must say that such a setting can still have a lot of things going for it. Internal intrigue, internal poltiics and development, outside exploration, outside manipulation, defense against enemies, etc. All sorts of things that a player might want to do if they are playing in an Eden game.

Creating such a society is probably going to be fun. Playing in it, with no kind of conflict at all, is going to be boring as hell to most of the players.

[Blue Thunder]

Creating such a society is probably going to be fun. Playing in it, with no kind of conflict at all, is going to be boring as hell to most of the players

Yeah, that's the abridged version of what I was trying to say. There are still opportunities for a "nova utopia" kind of game to be fun, but when faced the option of playing in a setting where there's more conflict and more tension, my choice is pretty obvious.

Take the Prometheans Unbound campaign I'm running. Sure, all Terats/PCs want to live in a society dominated by novas, one where they can finally be themselves and be at peace (thats the intention anyway, whether Terats ever find peace is another issue). But while living in that society may make for a good goal, it isn't really a good setting IMO.

Fighting for that nova homeland is a hundred times more interesting than living in it.

Eden itself is very tame. All of the action can be described as "Apollo waves hand, Chromatics die, all rejoice" A world where all the novas are sane sounds idyllic but, again, pretty boring. I wouldn't mind living on Eden as a person, but as a roleplayer I'd rather gnaw my arm off. If I had to play a nova in Trinity's setting, I'd go for a sane nova fighting against The Colony's forces, alongside a small group of nova allies (the other players). They've got no friends, no support network, and they're terribly outnumbered (The Colony breeds like mad). All they've got is their immense quantum abilities and their desire to protect a world that, even though it has forsaken them, they still care about. They would journey to some of the Colony's homeworlds and try preventing the slaughter of humanity.

Or something like that. Dammit, I need to stop talking about new campaign ideas. I get the urge to start another campaign here when I do, but I know I wouldn't have the time to follow through with it.

[Heru]

I beleive the biggest problem that we all have in this dicussion is matter of interest.

When I set out to create this thread I came to it from a setting maker perspective.

That is what I do, I make settings. Highly detailed settings. I don't actually play in them. Or at least mostly not.

So when I come up with a question of how novas can change society I try to think of a timeline or a setting that can do that. Not a particular adventuring party.

In addition, no matter what I watch or see, if I see ruins I immeidately begin picturing what they looked like in a more golden time. This is just me.

That is why I love Eden so much, that is why I love the First Age of Exalted. Not truly because of the game potential, but more because of the setting potential.

And this is why I dislike what the writers did to Aberrant. They sacrificed the setting at the behest of another setting. Instead of saying that the ABerrant backstory in Trinity is just one possible out of untold numbers of the future possible in Aberrant. They decided that Aberrant leads into Trinity, and that all of the setting and plot of that game had to be thrown out. For no good reason in my opionion. The chaotic evil Aberrants of Trinity are a great plot point, very interesting and perfect. Chaotic evil aberrants in Aberrant is a waste of good plot.

This is how I think and this is how I always will think: Trinity is good on its own, Trinity is good with the backstory of Aberrant. Aberrant is good on its own, Aberrant is NOT good when the future history of Trinity is used.

I forget (or ignore, you choose, ) that not all like the same things that I do. That some only look toward playability and ignore the greater metaplot. I am so not like that.

Take a campaign on this boards. The Mars Campaign in the Aberrant thread is such a great concept for a setting. For me the backstory and the metaplot and all descriptions of colonies and behaviors and events are so cool. The actual plot of the game, not so fun for me.

I just wish that others were like me and wanted to talk about the potential of Aberrant settings, future settings, alternate metaplots, and possibilities for greater development.

Oh well,

In the direct answers to the most recent post.

BlueNinja, I hope that you now see where I am coming from and why I like the concept of Eden so much.

Blue Thunder, I can understand that others might want this sort of game. I just don't feel the same way. If that makes sense.

But, at the same time, in all of the settings I create I always come up with variable plots that could fit the different crowds. Even in the most peaceful and advanced setting I make conflict always exists - usually its internal people against some sort of eternal threat.

Actually, due to the deep thought I put into most settings the amount of different activties that can occur is almost limitless. This limitless opportunity is completely within, and working for, the greater metaplot that I have created.

About Eden in a standard game. If I was to play a nova in a Trinity game I would play a native of Eden who wants to go explore the world. Because he has Eden to go back to he always knows that he has support and that he has the ability to point to other cultures and say - see, novas are not all bad. Here is an entire culture of good novas.

The plot that you came up with is interesting, and potentially a game. Seriously, it is a great point and just thinking about it has me comeing up with dozens of potential metaplots based on the actions of that group in the far future.

And finally, I wish that both of you didn't have such a close name. I get confused on who said what.

In closing, I just want to say these games are broad enough that each and every person can have fun doing what they want to do in it. And that is a good thing.

[BlueNinja]

And this is why I dislike what the writers did to Aberrant. They sacrificed the setting at the behest of another setting. Instead of saying that the ABerrant backstory in Trinity is just one possible out of untold numbers of the future possible in Aberrant. They decided that Aberrant leads into Trinity, and that all of the setting and plot of that game had to be thrown out. For no good reason in my opionion. The chaotic evil Aberrants of Trinity are a great plot point, very interesting and perfect. Chaotic evil aberrants in Aberrant is a waste of good plot.

This is how I think and this is how I always will think: Trinity is good on its own, Trinity is good with the backstory of Aberrant. Aberrant is good on its own, Aberrant is NOT good when the future history of Trinity is used.

Fortunately, there are no Metaplot Police for anything in the Trinity timeline. ::ultracool But the way, and more importantly the order, in which the games were written means that novas eventually have to become monsters. Had they started with Adventure! I doubt that the Trinity era would actually have psions. ::unsure

I just wish that others were like me and wanted to talk about the potential of Aberrant settings, future settings, alternate metaplots, and possibilities for greater development.

I think a better way to do this is to start off by saying, "I wannt to develop a future for Aberrant that doesn't allow for the Trinity canon," as then we'll all be expecting something that cuts out 2/3 of the official metaplot.

BlueNinja, I hope that you now see where I am coming from and why I like the concept of Eden so much.

Oh, I like the concept of Eden too. Like BT said, living there would be cool - but playing a character there is not going to be much fun for me.

But, at the same time, in all of the settings I create I always come up with variable plots that could fit the different crowds. Even in the most peaceful and advanced setting I make conflict always exists - usually its internal people against some sort of eternal threat.

And this is a conflict set that would be great for Edenite novas, which I think they alluded to in Stellar Frontiers when they talk about some of the Eden novas helping against the Chromatics.

Besides, if you want to talk about alternate ways to send the Aberrant timeline, read up on the premise of my Trans-D game. The PCs know straight up that their world is just one possible future, and that their future is clearly not written in stone. In the broad strokes of the world, the canon Trinity era is still going to happen - but depending on what they do, the players might or might not still be a part of it.

[Blue Thunder]

Not to be nit-picky, but they had decided on the major events of Aberrant and the Aberrant War by the time they made Trinity. They also nailed down a lot of what was going to be in Adventure, at least mentally. The people that ultimately made Aberrant did things a little differently then was planned, so if there seem to be huge issues of connectivity and such, I'd chalk it up to two different ideas of how Aberrant was supposed to be run. Originally, novas weren't going to start out as powerful as the 30 NP novas we're used to, at least not at the start (over time, however).

I personally love the whole Aberrant War leading into Trinity part of the metaplot, and it is in fact my favorite part of the entire overarching story aside from perhaps the Night of Long Knives. Like I said before, peace may be a nice and fluffy goal to shoot for, but for games, it sucks donkey chode. If the Aberrant War had ended with all novas joining hands and singing around a campfire, there wouldn't be any need to have Trinity, or in fact, any game at all after Aberrant. What would be the point?

The sad fate of novas and Aberrants is actually a strong point for the series, IMO. It's like the first three Star War movies. While I won't debate the quality of the writing (uh...Jar-Jar, anyone?), we all knew what fate was in store for the universe. We all knew Anakin would fall to the Dark Side and become Darth Vader, only to die at the hands of his son years later...just like we all know Michael Donighal eventually becomes Divis Mal, who becomes increasingly hostile towards baseline society and eventually leaves Earth for another universe, never to return. We all knew that Palpatine would rise as Emperor, we all knew the Jedi would be massacred, we all knew Yoda would flee to Dagobah, and we all knew R2-D2 and C-3PO would survive the conflict.

But knowing the fate that was in store made the whole thing more enjoyable.

See what I did there? Shameless Star Wars referencing. I'm such a nerd. But you have to agree that the whole Aberrant to Trinity deal is a good comparison to the whole Star Wars 1-3 to 4-6 deal. In a way, the novas are like the Jedi. Once the saviors of humanity, they are eventually blamed for it's problems and cast from society, only to return much later in the future and try to reclaim their good name. There are differences of course (novas actually did create problems, and they haven't returned to reclaim their good name so much as they've returned to eat us) but you get the picture.

Like the Jedi, novas have a bad fate in store for them, but they have no idea that it's going to happen. That's what makes it all the more delicious to watch unfold!

In my opinion, anyway...

[Heru]

BlueNinja,

Well then, I wannt to develop a future for Aberrant that doesn't allow for the Trinity canon.

I just had to do it. And just because I am joking, I am also quite serious. Its a little bit of both.

Oh, believe me, I am glad that their are no Metaplot Police. Otherwise I would have been arrested years and years ago. I have butchered so many settings in my attempt to make the ultimate setting. So I am immensly grateful that they don't exist. hehe

See, this leads me back to my main point: I really dislike that Aberrant has to loose so that Trinity can be Trinity. They are perfect separated but to screw over one setting at the behest of another, naha. I don't like it.

But this is pretty much differences of taste.

Though maybe a comparison would be good. Lets say White Wolf came out with the statement that the world of Exalted is the backstory of World of Darkness (no longer is it a rumor, its not Canon fact). Because of this they are going to make a metaplot that sees the destruction of Creation and the rise of the world of darkness as we know it.

I wouldn't like it, and I assume that a lot of other fans would not like it either. This is, in my view, what they did to Aberrant.

I really need to get my hands on Stellar Frontiers and the other books of Trinity - including the Trinity ST core rulebook (I own the Trinity d20 book, which is great on plot but butchers the ST system). I like Trinity on its own merits, I think its a great game with a lot of great potential.

I really like most of the concepts of your Trans-D setting. I have read it before and it sounds so totally cool. My only problem is how you have made it so taht the official backstory of Trinity still in existence. I wish you had made it an open future. But oh well, to each his own.

Blue Thunder,

First off, your example of Starwars fits this conversation exactly and is a really good point. Nothing wrong with being a nerd,

I love the concept of the Aberrant War as well. It is a great way of making the world that we know into the world that exists in Trinity. My problem is not with the Trinity Backstory in Trinity, its with it in Aberrant. Have novas go insane, have the Aberrant War and the Chinese Ultamatum. Thats all cool, just don't make it a requirement of canon Aberrant.

About starwars, I am of two minds about it. First, since I really like Palpatine and the Empire I found it awesome to see the Fall of the Republic and the Rise of the Empire. The scene in the Senate Chamber when he is declared Emperor is just cinamatic heaven. In the point of the Origional Series I love watching how history played out. But when I want to enjoy some of the concepts presented in the Prequel Trilogy I ignore the future events. I do this alot when I read fanfic about pearings that wouldn't work in canon cause members of it die. I do it when I like the Jedi Order and the concept of democracy. In these sitautions I usually wipe the future clean and say that Palpatine is not trying to take over. That way I can have the fun of watching the Jedi and Republic do their thing without the specter of the Orgional Series looming over.

So, in the end it because what is my mood. Do I want to watch the canon hsitory of Starwars, and if it so then I watch it to see the fall of the Republic and JEdi, or do I want to watch it to see the glory that was the Republic. If that is what I want then I ignore what will come about and make the Prequel its own little universe. Do note that I read a lot of fanfiction and this is where I do the editing out of the unvierse bits, not when I acutally watch the movie.

So, like I said above, yes, the Starwars Trilogy is a great comparison to the Trinity Universe. Its a great concept and a great metaplot from the point of view of the later time point (Trinity and Orgional) but it sucks from the point of the early time point (Aberrant and Prequel).

I want to note that Adventure! doesn't count because the gap in time is so huge and so unwritten that it doesn't impact anything that happens in Adventure!.

I hope that this post makes sense.

PS. I noticed that the characters allowed in a post has been moved from 5,000 to 10,000, is this a permanent change and is it a real change or is it a test or a bug. Just wanted to know as it will aid me in some of my longer posts.